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Old 06-23-2003, 09:03 AM   #11
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Darwin's Origin ... isn't the first book to read, and it was the first and not the last important book on the subject. But I think that it should be read by people seriously involved in the anticreationist effort.

Many times creationists will make absurd comments about Darwin, or his scientific work. If you don't have a background in that work you will appear to concede.

Troy Britain's Creation-Evolution Locus is an online source
http://home.att.net/~troybritain/

as are the Darwin Papers of the Online Literature Library - Charles Darwin
http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/
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Old 06-23-2003, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roller
Maybe Ernst Mayr's "What Evolution Is"
I second that! Probably the best single book out there.

Also, I have to disagree with Vixstile's assessment of Jones' book, Darwin's Ghost. I think its a great popular introduction to evolutionary biology, in an easy-to-read format. One major complaint I do have about DG is the referencing -- basically no references, just a 'further reading' section in the back of the book. I hate that. I want to be able to check the references for every particular claim in a book, rather than check a bunch of further reading that may or may not have the info I'm looking for.

Patrick
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Old 06-25-2003, 05:40 PM   #13
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While I agree that Gould has strong biases, that could be said of Dawkins too. I wouldn't recommend Gould not because of his bias, but that he has no book on evolution for the beginner. His essays in Natural History magazine are works of literature that happens to include science, so you won't learn much there. His books on evolution are advanced and specialized so I can't recommend them either. If you want an entry level book on evolution near Gould's perspective, read Eldridge's Triumph of Evolution or Patterns of Evolution.

Funny that we each have different tastes in books. I happen to find Steve Jones' Darwin's Ghost to be an exciting and informative read. It is definitely worthy as anyone's first book into evolution.

Dawkins is a thrill to read and maybe even inspiring, but his picture of evolution (especially River out of Eden) is "highly biased and misleading" in that he seems only concerned with replicators and adaptations. Pluralist he ain't. If you really have to read Dawkins, read The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker.

Someone already mentioned Carl Zimmer, and I agree. Same with the recommendation on Mayr, it's good. I would also add at least a book on human evolution (and when I say human evolution I mean something about Hominids and pithecines, not evo psych) as most evo books do not discuss it. Try finding Alan Walker's The Wisdom of the Bones for his great discussion of Homo Erectus.
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Old 06-25-2003, 07:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Secular Elation


That is true. However, if there is any value out of reading Darwin's classic, it may not be to learn all the up-to-date information on evolution, but it would be the benefit of learning the historical background and familiarity with the source of the theory. After all, it all began with Darwin.
Yes, indeed. If you are a scientist you read the works of the great scientists of the past in the hope you can learn how to be a better scientist.
But you don't read them for the science.

And I agree you need to read it if you are going up against creationists, but the story to get across is that Darwin was not a prophet, that his ideas are accepted only as far as there is observational evidence to support them, that the final arbiter is not any book or any person but is the Real World.
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Old 06-25-2003, 07:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Dawkins is a thrill to read and maybe even inspiring, but his picture of evolution (especially River out of Eden) is "highly biased and misleading" in that he seems only concerned with replicators and adaptations. Pluralist he ain't. If you really have to read Dawkins, read The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker.
Mmm. I think It's important to read Dawkins with that in mind: that he is concerned almost exclusively with explaining adaptations with Darwinism. Seeing as he makes no secret of this, I'm not sure you could call it misleading. He's just focusing on what he considers the most important aspects of evolution. Climbing Mount Improbable is an excellent book for explaining what it seeks to explain. You can probably fault Dawkins for his focus, but not for too much else.
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Old 06-26-2003, 01:57 AM   #16
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Hello!

Once again I'm in need of a good on-line resource. This time I need a site with pictures of actual dino to bird transitional fossils.
I've browsed several sites, but none have pictures of the fossils.
Thanks
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Old 06-26-2003, 06:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Advocatus Diaboli
Hello!

Once again I'm in need of a good on-line resource. This time I need a site with pictures of actual dino to bird transitional fossils.
I've browsed several sites, but none have pictures of the fossils.
Thanks
You're not going to find what you need online. I recommend the following three books, though:

The Mistaken Extinction: Dinosaur Evolution and the Origin of Birds

There's a used copy for 6$ on Amazon.com

Mesozoic Birds: Above the Heads of Dinosaurs

This one is 95$. Check your local university library. Covers mostly the birds, but also a good chapter on the history and status of the theropod hypothesis.

The Rise of Birds: 225 Million Years of Evolution

This book was written by Sankar Chatterjee, the same paleontologist who described Protoavis, and in the view of most paleontologists in this field, his views on this fossil are not supportable. Nonetheless, the book is fairly inexpensive (used copy for 12$ on Amazon.com), fairly recent, and has lots of illustrations to help you learn avian and thereopod anatomy. You'll be spouting phrases like 'descending postorbital process' in no time.

Patrick
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Old 06-26-2003, 03:05 PM   #18
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Well, the dinobirds exhibition at the NHM in London is over, but the website's still up:

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/museum/tempexhi...irds/index.htm

The companion book is available from Amazon UK, as well as from the museum. It's just a small book, but it has a lot of picures of the fossils.
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Old 06-26-2003, 03:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Advocatus Diaboli
Hello!

Once again I'm in need of a good on-line resource. This time I need a site with pictures of actual dino to bird transitional fossils.
I've browsed several sites, but none have pictures of the fossils.
Thanks
This website contains links to many potentially useful websites, as well as references to journal articles:

http://www.origins.tv/darwin/dinobirds.htm#Birds
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Old 06-27-2003, 08:11 AM   #20
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Daniel Dennett - Darwin's Dangerous Idea
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