Toto

What strawman? I don't know what Wright's argument is yet. I'm just speculating that it might be the same as Craig's based on the available evidence. My speculation may be premature. He might have something equally unpersuasive.

Vorkosigan

What about the Pharisee belief in life after death? Does that not count?

Peter Kirby

Does Wright make an argument that Jesus was a real person? If not, how can he show that such a person rose from the dead? If so, what is the argument?

best,
Peter Kirby

Layman

Actually, an important part of Wright's argument is that Jews were the only one's open to a belief in the bodily resurrection of anyone. The Christian doctrine of resurrection is very similar to the Pharisees, except for one big exception. The Pharisees believed it would all happen at the end of the age, not to a failed messiah before then.

The post you are responding to was limited to the proposed pagan story about a bodily resurrection. My counter was that it was, very roughly, an equivalent, of pop fiction. Few or no Greeks took it as an example of how things worked. That some Jews would have taken it as a real story about such a reality is doubly unlikely.

That many Jews, most notably Pharisees, believed in bodily resurrection generally is obvious.

Layman

As I am sure you are aware, scholars in varying fields spend little time publishing arguments on facts accepted as undisputed in their field.

Layman

Like I said, there is no argument for the resurrection of Jesus that you would ever find persuasive. How close, or far, Wright comes to Craig is irrelevant to you.

Peter Kirby

Are you saying that the historicity of Jesus is a fact that could be demonstrated if one took a little time to consider the question? If so, what is the argument?

best,
Peter Kirby

Layman

I was clear about what I said. Scholars spend little time arguing about facts that are generally accepted in their field. I don't know whether that has anything to do with how much time it would take to consider the question.

Peter Kirby

If it is properly an undisputed fact, then a demonstration of its status as fact should be possible. What arguments are known to you for the historicity of Jesus?

best,
Peter Kirby

Layman

I certainly think it is possible. And I'm sure you and I are both knowledgeable about the arguments on both sides of the issues. I hate to doubt your sincerity, but I can't believe you really expect every scholarly treatment published about any part of Jesus' life to contain a specific refutation of a position almost no one in the scholarly community takes seriously.

That being said, if you and the rest of the skeptics here intend to turn every thread on this forum into a discussion of the Jesus Myth, then I suspect I'll be spending much less time here. I sometimes post on that issue specifically and sometimes post on others. My interests are wider then proving/disproving Jesus' existence.