Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrDarwin · 06-14-2002, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
<strong>Predator is not hungry enough to ignore a little foul odor (must be the famed but never proved to exist Persnicketus Fineckious)

All it takes is for the foul odor to be effective against at least some predators to give it selective advantage.</strong>

The odor is only half of it, and probably the less important half. The skunk's spray is blinding if it gets in one's eyes--not permanently, but long enough to allow the skunk to get away. The odor may simply serve as a warning; any predator that has had a stinging, blinding fluid sprayed in its eyes is likely to remember the distinctive odor that accompanies it.

What I find incredibly interesting is that the skunk, like the bombardier beetle, has relatives that have variants of the defense mechanism, with the relatives often using slightly different chemicals or slightly different mechanisms. If we examine the relatives of the skunk, I'm willing to bet we'll discover that they (1) use related chemical compounds, (2) these compounds both smell distinctive and can cause a burning sensation in one's eyes, and (3) some of them let loose with it when attacked.

Now, if the defense mechanisms of the bombardier beetles and skunks existed in those species only, with nothing even remotely similar in related species, I would consider it a much better case for either special creation or intelligent design.

MrDarwin · 06-14-2002, 07:25 AM

In case anybody wants some actual facts about skunks, here's an interesting website:

<a href="http://www.dragoo.org" target="_blank">Dragoo Institute for the Betterment of Skunks and Skunk Reputations</a>

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

Duvenoy · 06-14-2002, 07:56 AM

Just a leetle more on the skunk / owl discussion.

The owl, due to it's method of attack, seldom gets sprayed, although the surrounding area might get some. The strength of an owls talons quickly put the aniaml into shock, then kill it.

To have one of these big raptors roosting on your wrist (heavily gloved) is an unforgettable experience. The sheer power of the animal is awsome.

doov

MrDarwin · 06-14-2002, 08:44 AM

More fun skunk info:

<a href="http://www.humboldt.edu/~wfw2/chemofskunkspray.html" target="_blank">Chemistry of Skunk Spray</a>

<a href="http://www.humboldt.edu/~wfw2/histskunksprayres.html" target="_blank">A History of Skunk Defensive Secretion Research</a>

And as I suspected, anal scent glands are widespread among skunk relatives (in fact they are a typical characteristic of all mustelids. These are generally used for social purposes (marking territory, etc.) but in many cases they do double duty for defense (and this kind of dual function is a common pattern in evolution), for example in <a href="http://www.wolverinefoundation.org/specacct.htm" target="_blank">wolverines:</a>

Quote:

Wolverines communicate through vocalizations and scent marking. A variety of vocalizations are used in the presence of conspecifics and kits. Chemical communication is accomplished via scentmarking with urine and abdominal rubbing. Although wolverines have well developed anal musk glands, musking appears to be used primarily as a fear-defense mechanism and is associated with cautionary raised tail posture (Long 1987). Contact with humans will usually elicit a vocal as well as chemical response.

and <a href="http://www.calacademy.org/calwild/fall99/wild.htm" target="_blank">badgers:</a>

Quote:

Loosely speaking, all carnivorous diggers have been called badgers, but the world�s six genera of �true badgers� also possess anal scent glands and a unique cusp on one molar tooth. In most cases, these scent glands are a pale imitation of those found in skunks, but the honey badger of Africa and southern Asia may use its potent spray to anesthetize bees before it raids their nests. The American badger (Taxidea taxus), found in arid, open country and mountain meadows throughout the West, also releases a strong musky odor when it�s threatened.

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

gilly54 · 06-15-2002, 12:37 AM

I've seen pictures of humans with tails in one of my anatomy books. Usually the tail is removed at birth. Blame it on the coccygeal bones not being "vestigealized" during embryonic development.

Camaban · 06-15-2002, 12:44 AM

*wonders how much control the person has over the tail when it's left on*

(IE, are all the muscles, etc still there?)

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06-14-2002, 07:25 AM	#42
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	In case anybody wants some actual facts about skunks, here's an interesting website: <a href="http://www.dragoo.org" target="_blank">Dragoo Institute for the Betterment of Skunks and Skunk Reputations</a> [ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

06-14-2002, 07:56 AM	#43
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	Just a leetle more on the skunk / owl discussion. The owl, due to it's method of attack, seldom gets sprayed, although the surrounding area might get some. The strength of an owls talons quickly put the aniaml into shock, then kill it. To have one of these big raptors roosting on your wrist (heavily gloved) is an unforgettable experience. The sheer power of the animal is awsome. doov

06-15-2002, 12:37 AM	#45
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	I've seen pictures of humans with tails in one of my anatomy books. Usually the tail is removed at birth. Blame it on the coccygeal bones not being "vestigealized" during embryonic development.

06-15-2002, 12:44 AM	#46
Camaban Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 473	wonders how much control the person has over the tail when it's left on (IE, are all the muscles, etc still there?)

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