Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 02-15-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lugotorix
The beginning of the Universe is mentioned in the Buddhist scriptures, but it's never treated as special in itself. It's used to illustrate the Buddhist teaching on karma. They adapted the standard Indian cosmology (a cyclic universe) so that the law of cause-and-effect drives it. For instance, in several sutras, like the Brahmajala Sutra, it is mentioned that this "world-system" or universe passes away and beings are reborn into an in-between formless realm for a long time. Finally, the world-system re-evolves and one of these beings whose good karma has run out is reborn in it. This being gets lonely after a while and wishes for some company. When other beings whose good karma has run out die in the formless realm and are reborn here, the first being thinks he has created them by his wish,
and so becomes worshipped as the Creator. (Basically, the whole story is a not-so-subtle dig at Brahamanism, repainting their gods as hapless dorks.)

So anyway, it's just a pedagogical device and not meant to be a literal description of the beginning of the Universe. At least, I've never met any other Buddhist who thinks of it like fundamentalist Christians think of Genesis.

lugotorix

Actually this theory seems to be a replication of Sankya philosophy.

hinduwoman · 02-15-2003, 07:05 PM

I saw a picture taken by the spaceship of the origin of the universe.
We are in trouble!
It is ovalshaped with golden spots all over. Upanishads declares that the universe existed first as a golden egg which expanded.

Now soon we will have Hindu nutters proclaiming the secret science of ancient Hinduism.

02-16-2003, 07:32 PM

I saw a picture taken by the spaceship of the origin of the universe.
We are in trouble!
It is ovalshaped with golden spots all over. Upanishads declares that the universe existed first as a golden egg which expanded.

Now soon we will have Hindu nutters proclaiming the secret science of ancient Hinduism.

My question : How do they (whoever handling that spaceship) take picture of something that went "kaboom" over a few Billion years ago? Shouldn't the leftovers be shattered all over the Universe?

andy_d · 02-17-2003, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim

My question : How do they (whoever handling that spaceship) take picture of something that went "kaboom" over a few Billion years ago? Shouldn't the leftovers be shattered all over the Universe?

Because radiation is considered to travel at a finite speed, it takes a finite ammount of time for an event at a certain distance to become visible to us.

Thus, the further you look into deep space, the longer ago the events that you are witnessing actually took place.

If you look far enough out/back you encounter a background field of radiation, which is all that is left of what the Big Bang "looked" like. That is what they mapped in the picture Hinduwoman refers to.

02-17-2003, 10:22 PM

Because radiation is considered to travel at a finite speed, it takes a finite ammount of time for an event at a certain distance to become visible to us.

Thus, the further you look into deep space, the longer ago the events that you are witnessing actually took place.

If you look far enough out/back you encounter a background field of radiation, which is all that is left of what the Big Bang "looked" like. That is what they mapped in the picture Hinduwoman refers to.

My reply : I see ...

Anyone has a link to this pictures ... want to see this "Egg" ... hate to see the Chicken which laid it though ...

If the egg is here, who or what laid it, I wonder ...

How do you guys think the ancient Hindus could have possibly guessed that the beginning of the Universe is like an egg? I could guess a few possiblities (assuming of course you guys still don't believe in God) :

1. The Ancients simply guessed it since they see a chicken laid an egg and they could say that God laid one also.

2. The Ancients built, launched and maintanced a satelite and receiver station long enough to witness such pictures as we see now and added that the Universe came from an egg like sphere.

Hell ... why not ... if someone could actually believe that life of this planet originated from some floating space organic stew (Panspermia), then this could be possible also, right?

3. Someone meditated for the longest time, send his consciousness to space where he witness such thing, came back down and told the others ... possible.

4. An alien race came and took the Ancients up to space, show them this sphere-shaped things and brought them back, and they claimed this aliens are Gods. Logical.

What you guys say?

Godless Dave · 02-25-2003, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andy_d
In fact, i've heard advice from some very senior Buddhsit teachers that if there were ever a situation where science were to disprove a common Buddhist idea about nature, then we should believe science. Indeed, the historical Buddha left instructions to that effect.

Which is why, even though I don't "believe in" or follow Buddhism, I respect it a lot more than conventional religions.

hinduwoman · 02-25-2003, 05:18 PM

Seraphim, it is 2 and 4 that someone would plump for, to prove how more glorious Hinduism was than other cultures!

02-25-2003, 05:45 PM

Seraphim, it is 2 and 4 that someone would plump for, to prove how more glorious Hinduism was than other cultures!

My reply : They should ... it showed a lot of progress in terms of personal and social developments compared to any other religions. Example - Ayurveda and Yoga.
Who's fault is if Hindus now don't know about their own culture and be as creative in living as their ancestors were.

so you choose choice no. 1 and 3 ... OK.

Autonemesis · 02-25-2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
Anyone has a link to this pictures ... want to see this "Egg" ... hate to see the Chicken which laid it though ...

If the egg is here, who or what laid it, I wonder ...

MAP Media Outreach (in other words, pictures). The egg shape is not real, it's just that this is a map of the entire 360 degree 3-d sphere of sky, but flattened to fit in a 2-dimensional representation on a page or a screen.

(edit: oops got carried away)

02-25-2003, 07:22 PM

The egg shape is not real, it's just that this is a map of the entire 360 degree 3-d sphere of sky, but flattened to fit in a 2-dimensional representation on a page or a screen.

My reply : Thank You for the picture, I was about to ask anyone for it.

So it is a model of a possible shape of the Universe based on what it could have looked like in early period of its creation?

Always thought the universe is unlimited and has no borders to it. Also makes me wonder about the concept of "Multiverse" (Multiple Universes, something I watched in the movie "The One")

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02-15-2003, 07:05 PM	#12
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	I saw a picture taken by the spaceship of the origin of the universe. We are in trouble! It is ovalshaped with golden spots all over. Upanishads declares that the universe existed first as a golden egg which expanded. Now soon we will have Hindu nutters proclaiming the secret science of ancient Hinduism.

02-16-2003, 07:32 PM	#13
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	I saw a picture taken by the spaceship of the origin of the universe. We are in trouble! It is ovalshaped with golden spots all over. Upanishads declares that the universe existed first as a golden egg which expanded. Now soon we will have Hindu nutters proclaiming the secret science of ancient Hinduism. My question : How do they (whoever handling that spaceship) take picture of something that went "kaboom" over a few Billion years ago? Shouldn't the leftovers be shattered all over the Universe?

02-17-2003, 10:22 PM	#15
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Because radiation is considered to travel at a finite speed, it takes a finite ammount of time for an event at a certain distance to become visible to us. Thus, the further you look into deep space, the longer ago the events that you are witnessing actually took place. If you look far enough out/back you encounter a background field of radiation, which is all that is left of what the Big Bang "looked" like. That is what they mapped in the picture Hinduwoman refers to. My reply : I see ... Anyone has a link to this pictures ... want to see this "Egg" ... hate to see the Chicken which laid it though ... If the egg is here, who or what laid it, I wonder ... How do you guys think the ancient Hindus could have possibly guessed that the beginning of the Universe is like an egg? I could guess a few possiblities (assuming of course you guys still don't believe in God) : 1. The Ancients simply guessed it since they see a chicken laid an egg and they could say that God laid one also. 2. The Ancients built, launched and maintanced a satelite and receiver station long enough to witness such pictures as we see now and added that the Universe came from an egg like sphere. Hell ... why not ... if someone could actually believe that life of this planet originated from some floating space organic stew (Panspermia), then this could be possible also, right? 3. Someone meditated for the longest time, send his consciousness to space where he witness such thing, came back down and told the others ... possible. 4. An alien race came and took the Ancients up to space, show them this sphere-shaped things and brought them back, and they claimed this aliens are Gods. Logical. What you guys say?

02-25-2003, 05:18 PM	#17
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Seraphim, it is 2 and 4 that someone would plump for, to prove how more glorious Hinduism was than other cultures!

02-25-2003, 05:45 PM	#18
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Seraphim, it is 2 and 4 that someone would plump for, to prove how more glorious Hinduism was than other cultures! My reply : They should ... it showed a lot of progress in terms of personal and social developments compared to any other religions. Example - Ayurveda and Yoga. Who's fault is if Hindus now don't know about their own culture and be as creative in living as their ancestors were. so you choose choice no. 1 and 3 ... OK.

02-25-2003, 07:22 PM	#20
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	The egg shape is not real, it's just that this is a map of the entire 360 degree 3-d sphere of sky, but flattened to fit in a 2-dimensional representation on a page or a screen. My reply : Thank You for the picture, I was about to ask anyone for it. So it is a model of a possible shape of the Universe based on what it could have looked like in early period of its creation? Always thought the universe is unlimited and has no borders to it. Also makes me wonder about the concept of "Multiverse" (Multiple Universes, something I watched in the movie "The One")

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