brighid

That is quite normal for a child this age, it's called separation anxiety. Also, many children that age feel as if "God had forsaken" them when mommy or daddy won't let them have the toy they want and get disciplined after throwing a tempertantrum.

Brighid

yguy

Observe, ladies and gentlemen, how couching the phenomenon in dry technical terms renders it apparently benign. It's only normal in an era in which latchkey kids are normal, just sex between pre-pubescents is now approaching "normality".

Not the same at all, unless the parent is mean-spirited about HOW they discipline. If it's done with patience - which seems to be almost never - the child has space to be embarrassed about its conduct.

yguy

In my case, going home was the difficult part, as I got better parenting at daycare than I did at home. The problem was relating to the other kids who came there with their own parental baggage. Get picked on by one kid, then pick on another kid to feel powerful again. An innocuous version of modern-day prisons is what it amounted to.

As a teenager I talked to a psychologist who had dealings with the center, which had coed bathrooms for the kids. According to her, some of them were screwing each other's brains out in there, and there was "nothing they [those running the facility] can do about it". That was in the late 60's.

brighid

I am sorry if you felt I was downgrading this personal, traumatic experience. Separation anxiety IS normal at this age and earlier.

http://www.baltimorepsych.com/separation_anxiety.htm

Even a patient, loving parent who uses appropriate discipline will encounter instances when a young child, who is yet unable to understand or fully control his/her emotions feels unfairly treated because he/she did not get her way. This is also normal behavior.

Brighid

Jennie

With a two and a half and a five year old I can give this statement my hearty endorsement!

yguy

Brighid, I'm over it, already. Honest.

Swell. What does this have to do with the question of whether the recent trend to "farm out" parenting to any degree is a good thing?

But if it really is patience the parent displays rather than mere suppression of anger, the child has the chance to feel embarassed, knowing that it was denied something it wanted rather than something it needed. A sense of security isn't just something a child wants, its something it needs.

wildernesse

I can remember being left at a day care when I was three--my mother's close friend was the director and they went to a long lunch. I finished playing, and my mommy was gone! Waaah!! That was a very stressful occasion, so I can sympathize with yguy.

However, if that had happened every day of my life I wouldn't have cared. I didn't care when my parents left me with my grandparents. (Seeing as they spoiled me rotten, I shouldn't have cared! I loved every minute of it.)

I think that being farmed out is bad in relation to whom the child is "farmed out" to, and how much attention they are given. Like Helen said, it depends on the caretaker and the parents.

--tibac

brighid

It is relevant because you brought it up, in what I preceived was an attempt to state that leaving a child with another care provider was somehow damaging/harmful to the child.

I also thought it relevant to this discussion because I have seen the emotional reaction of a young child brought up in past conversations, again relating it to something bad the parent was doing. Therefore I felt it important to clarify that although the experience is frightening for a child it is a normal, and healthy part of a child's development.

Even before commercial day care was available to the general public children were "farmed out" to other members of their extended family and community. I know this is how it was with my parents when they were growing up and into some extent in my childhood, and in my son's childhood.

A parent is not always a good choice as person to care for a child and being a parent doesn't make one ipso facto capable or willing to properly care for ones child. I would also think that it is better for a child to be placed in the care of competant adults over allowing a child to simply be a "latch key kid."

Brighid

yguy

Not just "another care provider", a stranger.

I'm reminded of a documentary I saw on PBS 10+ years ago where a researcher cared for children of single moms who'd been imprisoned. He'd pick them up and hug them, but they were inconsolable. The despairing look on those kids' faces would have ripped the heart out of anybody who had one.

And don't anybody DARE tell me kids are "resilient". That's nothing but a convenient rationalization for child neglect and abuse.

You might just as well say that the emotional reaction of a child to being abused is a normal, healthy part of a child's development, as common as it is.

Community in those days generally did not mean strangers, and the child wasn't herded together with dozens of others so they could bring out the worst in each other.

If the parent doesn't give a damn about the child, that is obviously true. We cannot condone or facilitate such parenting as a society unless we are prepared to morph into an Orwellian or Huxleyan nightmare.

Just who gets to decide what competent is? And how in hell can anyone be "competent" to be a child's surrogate mother? It's like expecting a turtle to be a dog.

brighid

Stranger does not equate to incompetant however. All through out a child's life he/she will encounter "strangers." Every new person is a stranger. Every new school teacher a child has will at some point be a stranger. Even loved ones and relatives of said child's parents might be strangers to a child. I don't see how that "stranger' status makes on incapable of providing a secure, loving environment to care for another persons child.



Well that is just a bunch of hyperbole. Common and natural are not equitable. Child abuse is not healthy, even if it is common or even normal for some dysfunctional family. Separation anxiety is normal for every child and healthy displays of it demonstrate a positive, strong bond between child and parent.



That is a rather pessimistic view to take. I have had the complete opposite experience in my own life and with my son's day care experience. A good day care provider creates an environment different from what you speak. I am sorry you have had such negative experiences in your life. Furthermore, parents and care providers that emphasize personal responsibility (even with children as young as 2) would have taught you that you are the only one responsible for your actions even if another child is misbehaving. As an adult you should know this. Another child, or human being isn't responsible for making the worst of you come out. You are the only one responsible.

Reasonable people get to decide what competent is. A day care provider is not a surrogate mother, although one can be. I would think in the cases of abusive or neglectful parent this provider could become the positive, loving, safe influence a child needs to grow up in a healthy adult. None of the people who have cared for my child (family or otherwise) could ever take over the role of mother to my child. The bond between my son and I is very strong. Competant, responsible parents also tend to chose competant, responsible people to care for the children the love. Given the many regulations a state approved facility must have often times children are safer in the care of these individuals then they are at home.

A competant provider (imo and what I look for in people) is someone who demonstrates a great deal of maturity, is calm and collected under pressure, who practices authoritative parenting skills, uses positive reinforcement rather then punitive punishment, perhaps an individual with a degree in early child development, has experience with children (often more then a new parent has), has passed criminal background checks, and whose demonstrated actions while interacting with children that make me feel confident this person will do right by my precious child. Also given that children are far more likely to be abused by a family member, or trusted friend it seems that strangers aren't all that bad.

The summer camp my son attends is highly regulated and must pass regular inspections. We are familiar with and know many of the individual camp counselors. They all have, or are pursuing degrees in early childhood development, education or a related field. They all must pass criminal background checks and a whole other list of items before being able to be a camp counselor. I also have come to know their superiors very well because I work with them in a teaching capacity. My son is able to do things and go places I might not have the time or energy to take him. He learns confidence, independence and self-reliance through these experiences. I know his counselors and other staff now, even if some were strangers at some point in time. None have given me a reason to doubt their abilities or dedication to being good role models and care providers for my child and the other children in their care.

His school teachers have all been strangers and thus far they have all been very good. We recently had his 3rd grade teacher over to dinner and plan on inviting her to many other family events. She is a wonderful woman and teacher and she and my son developed a very special, positive bond that shows in his attitude, enthusiasm and his grades.

This doesn't mean he won't ever have any bad experiences with strangers, but to instill anything more then a skeptical fear of strangers seems counterproductive.

Brighid