Koyaanisqatsi

Do tell...

I don't recall that being the question, but I'll stipulate that this is a central question. Though I'd keep in mind that the theist answers that question irrationally; i.e., through mere assertion or otherwise unfounded claim.

I wouldn't stipulate to that, but go on...

You mean "infer" and the following "points" are actually questions. But, continue...

No, the central question there would be, "Was life created by something alive (which is self contradictory) or did it form?"

Well, it would take matter to constitute life, so you've got a cart before the horse problem there.

Again, I would not use the word "created" but I would stipulate that matter forms what we euphemistically refer to as "life."

What do you mean "either way?" The only actual question you've asked is, "Was life created by something alive (which is self contradictory) or did it form?" There is zero evidence that it was created by something alive (beyond the self contradictory aspect) and an overwhelming amount of evidence that it was formed (aka, "evolution").

Indeed, as many before me have pointed out countless times, there is nothing to evolution that requires a God-like designer/creator, so, again, the preponderance of the evidence (hell the whole shooting match as far as evidence is concerned) supports the fact that life was not "created" by some sort of "higher intelligence," aka, a god.

There is nothing subjective about reality (that's why we coined the phrase); there is the subjective experience of reality, but a tree falls in a forrest and makes a sound regardless of whether or not any human/animal/observer is around to confirm that sound.

You have failed to present the "other" way as being anything resembling rational. To pretend a magical sky-Daddy blinked the universe into existence against the overwhelming evidence that supports one did not is the very definition of "irrational."

"Religious practices and rites" are not the totality of theism. Theism begins with the assumption that a god exists, so I'm not sure why you've made the above point. It has nothing to do with the discussion or the "question" what rituals a particular cult may (or may not) engage in, so you're correct on that point.

Of course it does. Was life created? Mythology, Christianity, etc., all assume the affirmative. They do so in spite of evidence to the contrary. This is called "faith" (or, to categorize it properly so we don't end up doing a semantics dance via context and equivocation, "religious faith").

Another, more apt term would be "wish fulfillment." And, again, it is the very defining quality of "irrational."

Gawen

Why don't you try surfing this website and the fora within? If you had, you would not be asking this question...I wager.

weltschmerz

What I mean to ask, is: Is atheism the default position? It is an epistemological question as opposed to an evidential matter. Does that help?

Thanks,

~ Alexander

By the way, I am a Calvinist so I obviously think that God has revealed Himself generally in such a way that all men know that God exists. It would follow that my position is that atheism is not the default position (and I say this not to start an argument but to state my position so everyone understands where I am coming from).

weltschmerz

Hello,

I am asking this question to get a fresh perspective on the issue. I suppose all questions have just about been exhausted on iidb but it still nice to get a fresh perspective.

Thanks,

~ Alexander

weltschmerz

Hello,

I am basically asking if there is a presumption of atheism. That is, should atheism be assumed at the start; it is an epistemological question. Some people ask it in the more general sense of, "Is atheism the default position to hold?"

Thanks and sorry for any confusion,

~ Alexander

GolfVixen

Just about everyone on here will point out to you that most people are the same religion as their parents are. This trend points to the fact that religion is learned, not innate. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that atheism is the "default setting", if you will, of everyone when they are first born.

Do you believe that people are born knowing of god? Please explain to me more so I can better answer you. I'm usually a lurker, so I'm not always the best at posting, so patience please.

Aerik

Strong atheists only presume that evidence trumps faith. And that's only a logical extension of empiricism.

DancesWithCoffeeCups

There is zero evidence to point to consciousness existing in anything other than human beings (and to some extent other animals). If you have evidence to the contrary I would be happy to examine it.

Matter is alive. I am composed of matter. I am alive. My conscious is alive in the sense that the electro-chemical reactions in my brain keep it alive. I think it's not exactly the right term to use, however. I am alive and my conscious brain is alive. Consciousness is a by product of being alive.

There is no credible evidence that life was "created" by anything. I'm willing to examine any evidence you may have to support a claim for creation.

Matter was created when the universe expanded. Life consists of matter. (Energy, really).

The existing evidence and theories suggested by The Big Bang, Abiogenesis and Evolution are far more compelling than "god-did-it". You're correct however in that despite evidence to the contrary people will believe whatever suits them, especially if it's warm and floofy.

I find nothing at all rational in proclaiming "god-did-it" as a legitimate answer to how the universe formed and how life evolved. Not only that, the actual answers are far more fascinating than "god-did-it" could ever be.

RAFH

Not presumed, it is the default state. When born, one knows next to nothing. There are a few innate bits of knowledge but they are pretty basic. Cry to get attention from the familiar heartbeat, voice that was there as long as one can remember. There is little or no thought because there is little or no language in which to construct thoughts. There is no knowledge of god(s), just hunger, pain, need to eliminate, tiredness, comfort, security, warmth, fear.

Theism is learned. Just like every other complex concept. Generally, one simply falls into the pattern of their environment with the strongest influences being mother then father then other family members, friends, familial friends, community, etc. Some may resist, some may revolt, most simply go along.

There is no presumption, there is the lack of any assumptions. That's what atheism is, the absence of assumptions regarding theism.

GenesisNemesis

That's why I'm an atheist.