Arrowman

Oh, yes. Mmmmm.... Irish Catholic weddings....

My childen will soon be attending a Catholic school. At the interview with the principal, she remarked on new parent get-togethers and that it was a school tradition to not serve coffee after 5pm She laughed when I told her that it sounded like we would be much more comfortable there than at, say, a Methodist school.

For a little insight, check out this BB thread:

<a href="http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000465" target="_blank">http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000465</a>

Oh, PS - nixon is right, IMO. Alcohol is not a stimulant, as many people believe - it is a suppressant. It suppresses inhibitions; it doesn't "make you do things you normally wouldn't".

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]</p>

lpetrich

This gives new meaning to Karl Marx's famous comment that religion is the opium of the people -- that it is an addiction for some people.

For the record, I don't consume CH3CH2OH, and the most I've done was to once drink some of the wine that my father liked to drink. Even diluted with water, I didn't like the taste.

This recalls something odd: that wine was only sold in "State Stores"; the Pennsylvania "State Store" system is still in operation, or at least was last summer. It seems to me to be absolutely pointless for a government to be in that business, because that's very far from being a critically-important natural monopoly like roads.

Oresta

It's an intriguing question: When and why did some Protestant sects begin to attach sin to alcohol and tobacco use? marduck is right, until recently people drank enormous amounts of alcohol. School boys at Eton had a daily ration of beer in the 17th Century and were disciplined if they didn't drink up. Puritans drank in church - heated beer called flips - to keep warm. In Restoration London, law required a ration of three pints of beer a day for patients in the charity hospital.
This is the culture from whence comes American fundamentalism. How'd they get from there to here?

I would hazard a quess that the American adaptation of Weslyan doctrine of "sinless perfection" in the 1830s had some influence, but I am not well-versed in American evangelism.

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Oresta ]</p>

sullster

Wait! I just recalled the 19th century Women's Temperance Movement. After the Civil War and the end of the slavery abolition societies, upper crust ladies became anti-alcohol crusaders. Whether they influenced or were influenced by the fundies of the time is something I am not sure of, in regards to alcohol use.

The moral crusaders won for a while by getting a Constitutional ammendment prohibiting boooze. The fundies must have been in their glory back then. After all, they never do like anyone else having any fun. That is a cornerstone of their religion.

zamboniavenger

I'd say this was probably one of the keys. They really targeted taverns and beer halls men went after work for a drink. Another reason has to do with immigration. When the hard drinking Irish came over in mass during the 19th century, the "original" Americans came to associate drinking with dirty immigrants.

Mike Montgomery

I think it is just practical based on recent history. Clearly Jesus drank fermented juice. Timothy apparently was avoiding alcohol, but was encouraged to drink anyway because of impure water affecting his stomach.

It is a lot like the prohibition on dancing, where dancing is not just permitted but encouraged in the Bible.

I think these were practical prohibitions based on culture at some point in time, where the places where drinking and dancing occurred were host to undesirable activity. This avoidance becomes part of the culture of the group, and the historical or practical reasons for why the prohibitions might have been made at some point are lost.

Shake

Where are our European friends on this debate? I know that casual alcohol consumption is much more prevalent in some European countries than here in the US. Actually, Europe is much more understanding on other issues, i.e. public nudity, than is the US. I mean, aren't even children given wine with meals? Granted, I understand that some other countries also have higher levels of alcoholism, but that's not necessarily due strictly to alcohol being introduced at a younger age.

It's like with firearms ... if you're brought up from a young age with a healthy respect for what they can do, and are taught proper safety and care of firearms, then there is no danger from having them in the home. At least not from your own family. The same could be argued for alcohol. If you were to have wine, say, with dinner and give a little to the kids, is that really so bad? As long as you limit their consumption to a very small amount and educate them about the effects of excessive drinking.

I'm not trying to say that we should all give our kids drinks. I just know that it's customary in some cultures to have some wine with a meal.

Hell, back in the middle ages, beer was a major dietary staple of lots of people. Lots of calories from carbohydrates!

Godless Dave

Very good point. I think when a culture is very religious people in that culture identify all customs and taboos with their religion, whether they're in their or not. For American fundamentalists that would be patriotism, racism, and nuclear families. For many Muslims it's the restrictions placed on women, most of which are not in the Quran.