Sakpo

From here.

According to the article this is still standard practice in many places. It sort of shocks me that they would do that without a womans consent or knowledge. Don't get me wrong, I understand what a useful exercise this probably is, but really, shouldn't they get consent from the patient first, especially if studies show most women will consent anyway?

ju'iblex

consent? yes. yes they should. thats highly disturbing.

edited to add: any examination, regardless of area should only be done with permission!

Talulah

There are also pelvic exams of women admitted to mental hospitals. In theory there is supposed to be consent. In practice, there isn't.

Loren Pechtel

I thought getting examined by students was part of being in a teaching hospital.

Sakpo

Yes, it is. But not necessarily getting your private parts examined, without your knowledge, while you're drugged out. Clearly they're not being up front about the matter. They ought to be.

CuriosityKills

Yikes!

Yeah, if I am having a procedure done at a teaching hospital, I would expect there to be some students involved in the procedure I signed up for. If you are at a teaching hospital or not, you should be able to decline unecessary extraneous examinations.

While at the clinic for routine pelvic exams I have been asked (prior to the examination), if it would be alright if a student came in and viewed. I said no. I would be absolutely livid if I found out if I was anesthetized and examined without my knowledge. As a little girl I was always tought that no one should touch my private areas without my consent.

Eudaimonist

I'm surprised that nobody's "morality alarm" was triggered sooner! What were these people thinking?

Clarice

/me adds another line to her birthing plan. In bold letters.

I can't believe there is a debate about this within the medical community. Performing an unnecessary examination on a patient who has not consented to it is battery, pure and simple. In this case, it would be sexual assault.

I mean, Jebus, what would the proponents of this practice think if the local oral surgeon let ob/gyn students take a poke at his female patients while they were anesthetized for gum surgery? What, because the women at issue consented to surgery on an area closer to the examined area, that makes it OK? What about a boob job? Appendectomy? How close to the vagina does the surgery need to be for this to be "ethical?"

christ-on-a-stick

Clarice, I couldn't agree with you more.

Having exploratory brain surgery might also be "part of being in a teaching hospital" - but not unless the patient knows about it!!!

I too am somewhat shocked that there is even a *question* about this.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Clarice
I can't believe there is a debate about this within the medical community. Performing an unnecessary examination on a patient who has not consented to it is battery, pure and simple. In this case, it would be sexual assault.

It seems to me that allowing students to examine one is part and parcel of being in a teaching hospital.

I mean, Jebus, what would the proponents of this practice think if the local oral surgeon let ob/gyn students take a poke at his female patients while they were anesthetized for gum surgery? What, because the women at issue consented to surgery on an area closer to the examined area, that makes it OK? What about a boob job? Appendectomy? How close to the vagina does the surgery need to be for this to be "ethical?"

Different situation. The surgeon *IS* going to be performing this examination anyway, teaching hospital or no. The issue is whether the students are also allowed to do the same thing he is.