Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Christopher Lord · 01-21-2002, 08:53 PM

This is all a perspective game.

Notice the blue haze in those images? thats a large volume of air. This indicates great distance.

Thus, 2D photographs do not capture the raw distance, and sometimes not even being there helps because its just so dammed far away. Our binocular vision doesnt help at all.

skyscrapers seem higher because we climb them all the time, and look down from them all the time. not only that, we look up from their bases all the time.

Mountains and cliffs are just too big for people to grasp properly without actually climbing one. I've been skidooing and hiking in the rocky mountains, and trust me, they seem small until you decide to go to one. you will find out how far they are away. if a skyscraper was beside one you probably wouldnt even see it because of the curve of the planet.

[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Christopher Lord ]</p>

tronvillain · 01-21-2002, 08:53 PM

I'm amazed by how much you're capable of reading into a picture Secular Elation. It seems possible that the problem is that you cannot see the base of El Capitan, yet are making assumptions about where it is located. It's not as if the base of one has to be located at the same elevation as the base of the other.

EDIT: Or we could go with LeftCoast's simpler explanation.

[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

Secular Elation · 01-21-2002, 08:58 PM

The empire state bulding:

Now here's a base view of El Capitan:

Sorry, you're telling me that El Capitan is higher than the empire state bulding? You have a higher change of convincing me that gods exist.

Christopher Lord · 01-21-2002, 08:58 PM

Another factor is the haze i think.

Cities are nasty places filled with smog, ruining our only bearing for distance, blue tints of distant objects.

Out where these sorts of rocks are, typically the air is clearer, and the haze is clearer.

Secular Elation · 01-21-2002, 08:59 PM

I'm amazed by how much you're capable of reading into a picture Secular Elation.

Don't be a smarty pants.

Secular Elation · 01-21-2002, 09:03 PM

Surely you recognize the fallacy of personal incredulity?

Oh, shut up. I know it's a fallacy, but it seems so beyond belief...

Look, I acknolwedge the fact that El Capitan really is 3,500 feet. It's just extremely difficult to believe. And I've been to Yosemite.

tronvillain · 01-21-2002, 09:04 PM

It is virtually impossible to judge how high El Capitan is from that picture, so I am mystified as to why you think setting it next to one of the Empire State Building means anything.

Christopher Lord has a good point about the Haze though.

Secular Elation · 01-21-2002, 09:06 PM

So what about haze? It doesn't change the height of something, now does it?

This thread is only succeeding in pitting me against everyone else, so I'll back out now.

tronvillain · 01-21-2002, 09:08 PM

It doesn't change the actual height of something, but it might affect estimates of something's height.

Secular Elation · 01-21-2002, 09:11 PM

It is virtually impossible to judge how high El Capitan is from that picture

What makes you think that? Judging the distance from those two guy's heads to the tip of the cliff, it doesn't look that high--not higher than the empire state bulding at least.

[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Secular Elation ]</p>

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01-21-2002, 08:53 PM	#11
Christopher Lord Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 808	This is all a perspective game. Notice the blue haze in those images? thats a large volume of air. This indicates great distance. Thus, 2D photographs do not capture the raw distance, and sometimes not even being there helps because its just so dammed far away. Our binocular vision doesnt help at all. skyscrapers seem higher because we climb them all the time, and look down from them all the time. not only that, we look up from their bases all the time. Mountains and cliffs are just too big for people to grasp properly without actually climbing one. I've been skidooing and hiking in the rocky mountains, and trust me, they seem small until you decide to go to one. you will find out how far they are away. if a skyscraper was beside one you probably wouldnt even see it because of the curve of the planet. [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Christopher Lord ]</p>

01-21-2002, 08:53 PM	#12
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	I'm amazed by how much you're capable of reading into a picture Secular Elation. It seems possible that the problem is that you cannot see the base of El Capitan, yet are making assumptions about where it is located. It's not as if the base of one has to be located at the same elevation as the base of the other. EDIT: Or we could go with LeftCoast's simpler explanation. [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

01-21-2002, 08:58 PM	#13
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	The empire state bulding: Now here's a base view of El Capitan: Sorry, you're telling me that El Capitan is higher than the empire state bulding? You have a higher change of convincing me that gods exist.

01-21-2002, 08:59 PM	#15
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	I'm amazed by how much you're capable of reading into a picture Secular Elation. Don't be a smarty pants.

01-21-2002, 09:03 PM	#16
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	Surely you recognize the fallacy of personal incredulity? Oh, shut up. I know it's a fallacy, but it seems so beyond belief... Look, I acknolwedge the fact that El Capitan really is 3,500 feet. It's just extremely difficult to believe. And I've been to Yosemite.

01-21-2002, 09:04 PM	#17
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	It is virtually impossible to judge how high El Capitan is from that picture, so I am mystified as to why you think setting it next to one of the Empire State Building means anything. Christopher Lord has a good point about the Haze though.

01-21-2002, 09:06 PM	#18
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	So what about haze? It doesn't change the height of something, now does it? This thread is only succeeding in pitting me against everyone else, so I'll back out now.

01-21-2002, 09:08 PM	#19
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	It doesn't change the actual height of something, but it might affect estimates of something's height.

01-21-2002, 09:11 PM	#20
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	It is virtually impossible to judge how high El Capitan is from that picture What makes you think that? Judging the distance from those two guy's heads to the tip of the cliff, it doesn't look that high--not higher than the empire state bulding at least. [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Secular Elation ]</p>

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