Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Hancock · 02-14-2003, 07:48 PM

LP
What the fuck good do new out lets for exploitation do for we the people? Shoove it

Martin Buber

beyelzu · 02-14-2003, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kind Bud
They have to keep up with the American farmers, who have enjoyed a deal a lot like that for decades. Of course, there are few American farmers to talk to about it anymore. Giant agribusiness corporations are the recipient of the bulk of farm subsidies in the US. Just another example of more corporate welfare.

Hell, I didnt realize that we had this in common. I completely and utterly despise corporate welfare. If a company cannot survive without governmental help, it should be allowed to die a natural death. I have always found the whole paying farmers to not grow crops to be incredibly amusing and sad.

Loren Pechtel · 02-14-2003, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Buber
LP
What the fuck good do new out lets for exploitation do for we the people? Shoove it

Martin Buber

Fine, if you want to drive a Model-T and use an abacus and slide rule instead of a calculator or computer. (ie, the tech of the rise of the Soviet Union.)

On the other hand, I'll be lobbying to have your Model-T banned from the roads because it's so polluting.

John Hancock · 02-14-2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
Fine, if you want to drive a Model-T and use an abacus and slide rule instead of a calculator or computer. (ie, the tech of the rise of the Soviet Union.)

On the other hand, I'll be lobbying to have your Model-T banned from the roads because it's so polluting.

Great Loren and you'll probably make a point of pissing in the rivers.
Martin Buber

Happy Wonderer · 02-14-2003, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan

Yes, an awful lot were. Just as they were about Soviet claims about lend-lease prior to the fall of the USSR, and about Soviet loss claims as well (the last note I heard about was in the Journal of Slavic military studies and the Sov records show human losses in excess of 40 million. Don't know what the figures are now). The Sovs took a lot of people in.

Unfortunately the only data I can find on it is the highly unreliable stuff at the Holocaust revisionist IHR. <sigh> I don't have any of my WWII books anymore. I'll see if I can track down the original post at WWII-L.

Vorkosigan [/B]

Great, and here we were thinking that they had all these gigantic battles with the Germans and the whole time they were sharing hot cocao with them and laughing at the stupidity of the allies. Slackers...

HW

What do the soviets supposedly claim about Lend-Lease? That it didn't happen? I don't think that claim would take in too many of us in the west.

Vorkosigan · 02-14-2003, 11:58 PM

Great, and here we were thinking that they had all these gigantic battles with the Germans and the whole time they were sharing hot cocao with them and laughing at the stupidity of the allies. Slackers...

After the USSR collapsed and the Soviet archives were opened, it was discovered that Lend-lease played a decisive role in the victory of the USSR over the Nazis. This was in contradiction with the traditional Soviet line that it had been nice, but not necessary, one that historians believed until the late 1990s.

What is this about soviet claims on lend-lease before the "fall of the USSR?" The Lend-lease bill (1941) was an American policy of "leasing" warships to the British while still remaining officially neutral in World War II. Britian had by that time run out of money to buy arms from us.

Here's a partial list of Soviet Lend-Lease supplies from the US:
http://peacecountry0.tripod.com/lendlse.htm
Lend-lease applied to Russia as well as Canada.

Hope this helps.

Vorkosigan

Happy Wonderer · 02-15-2003, 12:04 AM

Oops, cross edited post. (I stupidly hadn't realized that the convoys to Russia were still considered part of Lend-Lease.) There is certainly no denying that they happened, a lot of of people died getting them to the Soviets. The Soviets seemed to think they were important at the time, Stalin repeatedly called for more supplies.

HW

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02-14-2003, 07:48 PM	#61
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	LP What the fuck good do new out lets for exploitation do for we the people? Shoove it Martin Buber

02-14-2003, 11:58 PM	#66
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Great, and here we were thinking that they had all these gigantic battles with the Germans and the whole time they were sharing hot cocao with them and laughing at the stupidity of the allies. Slackers... After the USSR collapsed and the Soviet archives were opened, it was discovered that Lend-lease played a decisive role in the victory of the USSR over the Nazis. This was in contradiction with the traditional Soviet line that it had been nice, but not necessary, one that historians believed until the late 1990s. What is this about soviet claims on lend-lease before the "fall of the USSR?" The Lend-lease bill (1941) was an American policy of "leasing" warships to the British while still remaining officially neutral in World War II. Britian had by that time run out of money to buy arms from us. Here's a partial list of Soviet Lend-Lease supplies from the US: http://peacecountry0.tripod.com/lendlse.htm Lend-lease applied to Russia as well as Canada. Hope this helps. Vorkosigan

02-15-2003, 12:04 AM	#67
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	Oops, cross edited post. (I stupidly hadn't realized that the convoys to Russia were still considered part of Lend-Lease.) There is certainly no denying that they happened, a lot of of people died getting them to the Soviets. The Soviets seemed to think they were important at the time, Stalin repeatedly called for more supplies. HW

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