butswana

The cross in the picture above does not look like the one that was being paraded around months ago. Looks like it has mysteriously become more symetrical. Imagine that.

Mecha_Dude

oh, right, that's obviously from two different buildings


[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mecha_Dude ]</p>

simian

Don't you see, God performed such a miracle that this cross ended up looking exactly as though it was manufactured that way. Praise the Lord. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

The article by Coulter claiming the beams are from two separate buildings can be found <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25072" target="_blank">here</a>.

Does anybody know where to find additonal pictures, so I have some on-hand when the religious wackos around here begin claiming this "miracle" crap? Most of the ones I have found are a sites showing that there must have been a family of angles nesting at the top of the WTC (photos of an "angel" flying away from the building as it collapsed)- no word one way or the other on eggs in the nest. Needless to say, I don't trust their photos (not that they are particularly good in the first place).

Thanks for any pictures you can point me toward.

Simian

Blinn

Listen to this moron:

From <a href="http://www.thecross-photo.com/World_Trade_Center-Steel_Beam_Cross.htm" target="_blank">here</a>.
<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

simian

Zetec,

I was on a radio show after Sept. 11 (SOB host told me that he would like a few minutes to interview me, not that he was going to put me on the air for 20 minutes, live), and had a somebody called in claiming that if I was in the building at the time, my last words would have been "Oh my god." I responded that I had no idea what my last words would have been, but if they were "oh my god" they would have no more supernatural meaning to me than "knock on wood" does to her. I went on to state that I seriously doubted that she expects to waken or deafen, depending on which legend you want to follow, the spirits in the wood.

I don't know if I got through to her, but I suspect I got through to some other listeners. Of course, I get to rather frequently point out that there are atheists in foxholes, and I can introduce them to some from 3 different wars, if they would like.

Simian

4th Generation Atheist

As a sort of compromise, how about if the "cross" stays there for a little while, and then is moved to a museum? At some point a historical museum exhibit is bound to appear, and there will undoubtedly be a section in it concerning the diversity of people among the rescue workers and what the various groups took comfort in as they did their grisly job. The "cross" would be very appropriate there, along with gifts, flags, quotes and other museumish whatnot. The memorial at the site can remain secular; in another few years people will probably want something a little less "heavy" as a remembrance, like a nice park. But we as a culture are fond of museums that include the heavier stuff; the "cross" can go there.

[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: 4th Generation Atheist ]</p>

scigirl

I'm reserving my opinion on this memorial until I see it for myself.

Going to New York City the first week of July. I'll take pictures, and keep you all posted on what is going on.

Cross or no cross, I have a feeling I am going to cry the entire time.

scigirl

Mageth

From Coulter's article:


Here is an image of the cross as originally found:



Not exactly standing straight, and for the life of me I can't see any smaller crosses surrounding it.

From the same article:

I'm unclear after reading this if she's claiming that the cross was miraculously formed by two beams being somehow fused in the collapse. When she says "formed out of beams", it may just be an example of poor writing. Her intent may be just to claim the cross was "miraculously" deposited on top of Building 6's rubble in its supposedly upright, symmetrical form.

[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

Arrowman

I've got this mental image of God strolling past the wreckage (walking his dog perhaps), with his hands in his pockets, whistling, and casually tossing a handful of crosses (he carries them around you know - never know when someone might want an "autograph") on to the pile. "See? I prevailed!" he says, and continues his walk without a care in the universe.

-------------------

PS mageth, thanks for your comments on the "two buildings" thing. I think you're probably right; on reflection it's just clumsy wording for "the cross was not just a piece of building left standing; it fell from a great height and landed [almost] upright". Still a totally stupid thing to be in wonderment about, but not as dumb as thinking the cross was "formed" that way. Perhaps we did Ms Coulter a disservice.

[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]</p>

Arrowman

OK, being as generous as possible to the idea, I'd say there's a palpable difference between a genuine artefact / piece of historical fact, and replicas of that artefact being placed on courthouse lawns.

Especially since the reason for the replicas would not be that they represent the WTC site, but that they represent religion. Imagine if, say, a - I don't know - a football or something had miraculously survived (sorry, I can't think of a decent example off hand - bear with me..) and subsequently formed part of a memorial. Do you reckon local officials all over the country would be falling over themselves to place replica "WTC footballs" on courthous lawns? I don't think so...

But, again, that's a pretty subtle difference and I'll repeat what I said earlier - if you can't do it right, don't do it at all. I like the idea of an off-site museum better.

As for the "atheist contribution" - how about a "Don't Worry - God's In Control" bumper sticker?