SRB

SRB
Or does the Godhead consist of three distinct Gods?

Douglas:
Yes. (Although "distinct" should be qualified by saying "distinct Persons Who are Each God, yet uniquely share the same 'essence', Each being eternal and uncreated".)

SRB
The Athanasian Creed states "And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty... And yet they are not three Gods, but one God," which apparently directly contradicts what you say here. Furthermore, if the Godhead consists of three distinct Gods, then polytheism is true. [Polytheism is the theory that there is more than one God]. As traditionally understood, Christianity is incompatible with polytheism. That's why I said that this option, which computes most admirably, is heretical.

SRB

Douglas J. Bender

SRB,


Okay. Where in the Bible can I find the "Athanasian Creed"?

No. Because, as I've said, the Godhead contains three distinct Persons, but they are not "distinct" in the sense that they Each have exactly the same nature and substance, and they are in complete unity of mind and will.

Usually (or always?), this implies a complete distinction between the various "gods", and has no implication of "unity" amongst them.

As traditionally understood, yes. That is, polytheism is traditionally understood as implying certain things which contradict Christianity, and thus Christianity is seen as being incompatible with polytheism. As a strictly technical matter, I suppose one would have to say that the Biblical teaching on the Trinity implies that the Bible is "polytheistic", if one defines "polytheism" as teaching that there is more than one Person Who is God. But I think that would overlook the significant differences between the doctrine of the Trinity and "traditional" polytheism.


In Christ,

Douglas

Biff the unclean

Where in the bible does it say that there is a Trinity?
Strange, don't cha think, that at the same time it was decided that three persons made up one god it was also decided that it took three persons to be Caesar? Each was Caesar and the three together were Caesar.

HRG

Perhaps in your version of mathematics. In the more common version, equality is a transitive relation (if a=b and b=c then a=c). Thus if for three persons P1, P2 and P3:

P1 = God and P2 = God and P3 = God

then P1 = P2 = P3.

HRG.

mecca777

Nice point.

I suppose if Christianity was founded tomorrow there would be a democratically-elected Holy Parliament. That would make prayers kind of unwieldy

Douglas J. Bender

Or how about:

If for three persons P1, P2, and P3: P1 = Human and P2 = Human and P3 = Human, does it then follow that P1 = P2 = P3? No? Then your formulation is faulty, since you are applying a faulty definition for "God".


In Christ,

Douglas

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Douglas J. Bender ]</p>

Douglas J. Bender

Explicitly or implicitly? If the former, nowhere; if the latter, many places.

References, please. Besides, the Old Testament, which implicitly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity in several places quite clearly, was written WAY before any "Caesar" had even existed.

Sounds like Satan perhaps effecting a "copycat" doctrine in order to discredit or weaken the truth. He tries to do that all the time.


In Christ,

Douglas

Biff the unclean

(it took three persons to be Caesar?)
References, please.
No arcane or esoteric knowledge here. See Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
You might even try the Catholic Encyclopedia. When Constantine the Great saw the fiery sign in the sky he was fighting a war to oust the other Emperors to be the sole Caesar. After he died they went back to multiple

Besides, the Old Testament, which implicitly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity in several places quite clearly, was written WAY before any "Caesar" had even existed.
Now you're getting silly. How many Jewish Trinitarians were there?

(Each was Caesar and the three together were Caesar.)
Sounds like Satan perhaps effecting a "copycat" doctrine in order to discredit or weaken the truth. He tries to do that all the time.
Satan checks in with you on his hobbies, does he?
"Copycat" like all the Triune Gods and Goddesses the Hellenists had? Like the Galatian Goddess Mary perhaps? She had three aspects virgin-mother, nymph and wise woman (crone). Just like the three Mary's that stood at the foot of the cross.
Or do you mean "copycat" like the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? That trinity was the bases of the Dionysian religion. Zeus, Dionysos and the ghost of Dionysos mother, the blessed virgin Semele. Dionysos descended into Hades and redeemed her ghost, brought her to Heaven.

Please explain how these older religious beliefs can be copies--Satanic or otherwise--of Christian beliefs when they occurred so many centuries before Christianity.

SRB

Douglas:
Where in the Bible can I find the "Athanasian Creed"?

SRB
You can't, but the given idea is <a href="http://wbsa.logos.com/article.asp?id=5818" target="_blank">Biblical</a>. The Bible, as well as traditional Christianity, teaches that there is one God and not three, as you claim.

SRB
Furthermore, if the Godhead consists of three distinct Gods, then polytheism is true.

Douglas:
No. Because, as I've said, the Godhead contains three distinct Persons, but they are not "distinct" in the sense that they Each have exactly the same nature and substance, and they are in complete unity of mind and will.

SRB
Three Gods who all agree with each other are qualitatively, not numerically, identical. So long as you affirm that there are three Gods rather than one you are a polytheist, even if you say these three beings have much in common.

SRB
Polytheism is the theory that there is more than one God

Douglas
Usually (or always?), this implies a complete distinction between the various "gods", and has no implication of "unity" amongst them.

SRB
I disagree. Three Gods who all agree with each other, have the same intentions and thoughts, yet can still be distinguished one from another, are still three Gods. Someone who believes in such things is a polytheist. This follows from the definition of "polytheist."

SRB

Mecha_Dude

Hey amos, I see you gettin better at being coherent, keep up the good work!!!