Theli

But surveys doesn't provide interpretations, just result. I never questioned the result you provided, just how it should be interpreted.
Again, ofcourse... even evidence require interpretations, the likehood for the child to grow up being violent and the likehood for that child being beaten may or may not have a common cause.


Loren Pechtel...
Or just doesn't have the time or the energy to come up with a creative non-violent substitute for spanking. In an ideal family enviroment I would agree that spanking is unnecessary, but how many people live in such an enviroment and how easy is it to keep your temper?

openeyes

As adults we have some responsibility to alter our environment when it involves children as best we can to rear them in a responsible manner. It's impossible to have the ideal situation, especially considering the complexities of most of our lives. Nonetheless, when it come to discipline, finding ways to avoid spanking would be a priority for me, as I think it should be for others (for the reasons outlined by Alonzo and MollyMac.)

Daleth

That's why the statistics come out against spanking. People spank their kids because they lost their temper. They aren't teaching the kids anything with it. There's no correction involved, just anger and domination. If all you're showing your kid is that you hit them when they make you mad, your kid is going to learn to be violent in response to anger. If a person can manage not to hit other adults when those adults make them angry, why wouldn't they be able to manage to avoid hitting kids as well?

There are parents out there who use spanking to teach a lesson and who do not hit their kids in anger. That's probably got a better chance of avoiding teaching the child that violence it a good outlet for anger. But if these people have the patience, the time and the energy never to hit their kids in anger, then they have the patience to come up with an alternative to hitting as well.

yguy

But the question is, why should they? If they really aren't doing it out of impatience - and the kid will know it if they are - what's the harm?

Daleth

But the question is, why cause someone pain if you don't have to cause them pain? In what context other than controlling children would causing unnecessary physical pain be acceptable?

yguy

IMO, there is nothing inherently wrong with causing pain. If a parent justly punishes a child by sending him to his room or whatever, he will feel pain which his ego thinks the parent has caused. If physical pain is somehow more unacceptable than emotional pain, I fail to see how.

Unnecessary? None. As for controlling, patience doesn't desire to control, it desires that the child find its own self-control.

Apathist

Something about this statement seems off. Is it our goal to raise obedient kids? This would make parenting easier, of course, but is that the goal?

excreationist

That reminds about this mother and child I saw on the train once. The kid was being too noisy and the mother was saying to the child that if he(?) doesn't stop she'll leave him behind. Then the kid started crying a lot and saying "nooo!!!".

Theli

Daleth
I don't know about that, I mean even a dog can learn not to piss on the carpet through punishment (verbal or other). Why should a child, that is much smarter than a dog, not be able to draw the same connection between a certain action and following punishment?
But ofcourse, many parents would probably spank or yell at their kids as a result from other worries or problems in their lives.
I guess the problem is time, how can parents who both work overtime every day bond with their children?

brighid

Any reputable dog trainer will tell you that negative reinforcement isn't a productive alternative to teaching a dog to behave properly. Positive reinforcement (and a complete lack of physical violence) appears to be incredibly effective, even with abused animals.

If you were an employer and one of your employees did something wrong requiring a disciplinary action would you physically harm said individual inorder to teach him/her a lesson?

Brighid