RufusAtticus

Thomas,

If the Hebrews didn't think that sky was a solid dome, how then did it separate upper water from lower water? (Genesis 1:7) It had to have been viewed as something solid because when God opened the "floodgates" (NIV) of the sky (Genesis 7:11) water fell to the Earth. You can't have floodgates without a solid object to put them in. It seems very clear to me that the Hebrews viewed the sky as some sort of dam against the outer waters, and when God opened the floodgates water rushed in and flooded the world.

Jimmy Higgins

That's funny. You seem to be indicating that there was a sky before the first day and god merely stretched it out. I think that Genesis would argue that point.God says let there be an expanse. Not that god took one and made it larger. And the purpose of the expanse was clear, it was to hold back the waters. Note that Genesis says, So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. What is the expanse or sky holding out? The water.

Cute. Now explain where that water went to.

And like I said, most YEC's point to this meaning the earth literally split apart.

Atmospheric heaven? You get that from the Hebrew too?

Not according to Genesis as noted above.

Thomas Cassidy

No, I'm not. "In the beginning God made the Heaven . . ." The Hebrew word for "heaven" is plural, indicating three heavens, the first heaven is atmospheric, the second is outer space, and the third is His personal abode.I never said that He took the expanse and made it larger.That is not what it says. It simply says the expanse separated the water above from the water below. Nothing about holding back. The atmosphere separates the surface from outerspace, but the atmosphere certainly is not holding back space.It could have precipitated out during the flood in Noah's day.Then "most YEC's" are wrong. Yes. See above. The Hebrew word for "heaven" is plural. See my note on your note.

Hugo Holbling

Amusing site 1

Amusing site 2

Conspiracy cover-up from Talk Origins

idiom

The split apart theory is often used to explain the pangea theory. Asteroids smack into the plates and the sorta hydroplane or something around the world giving apparent millions of years of continetal drift in a few days.

The thing about needing the firmament today - the creationists reckon we do need it and thats why our life spans are shortened by a factor of 10 since pre-flood.

The red sky bit woz thought up by someone who noticed the red filters used on telescopes. The filters counter the doppler shift allowing the true colour of the stars to be seen. Now if the aptmosphere already had this filter in place then you could see the stars natural colour unaided.

I thought these ideas might entertain you guys for a bit.

- Idiom

Jimmy Higgins

I'd love to hear where you got that idea. The term may be plural, however, two points.
1) Where do you get the number 3?
2) Then how do you know which each heaven is? Some scripture would be nice to back these ideas up, lest they seem rather exotic.
What expance? He created the expanse on the second day and called it the sky. He didn't make it bigger, it didn't exist yet.
A linesman goes inbetween two fighting hockey players and seperates them. I'd say he's probably holding the players back.
Since when did Genesis mention outer space? Or that this is what the heavens were seperating?
Well, that would be completely unsuggested by the old testament. No where will you find anything about the chaotic water "precipitating" and eventually disappearing altogether.

In conclusion, I'd really like to see the scriptural evidence for the specific number of universes and their designations that you so proudly boast the knowledge of.

RufusAtticus

Thomas,

A litteral reading of Genesis reveals that "sky" has "floodgates." Now if sky is not a solid dam against the upper waters, how can it have floodgates?

Thomas Cassidy

The same way clouds can burst and it can rain cats and dogs. Metaphorically.

RufusAtticus

So you don't believe in a litteral Genesis? Isn't that grounds for dismissal on BaptistBoard. Furthermore, you apparently also believe that the ancient Hebrews knew it was metaphorical. What evidence do you have that they knew that the wasn't a solid dome, unlike many of their mediterranean neighbors?

Jimmy Higgins

So, the Genesis account of the "Great" Flood is all entirely metaphorical as well? You see, it was the waters of the deep and the heavens that crashed upon earth. But water must have metaphorically come from the heavens and from the foundations of the deep. In fact, the entire flood must have been metaphorical.

To follow up on Rufus's point, so where in the bible do you get this as being metaphorical? What keeps the entire story of The Fall from being one large metaphor?