Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 12-31-2001, 11:23 PM

However, different sects believe different things that cannot be true at the same time. The Trinity and the rejection of the Trinity cannot be true at the same time, for example.

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]

Benjamin Franklin · 01-01-2002, 03:36 AM

My Christian friend gave me another version of this proof. Christianity cannot be false because God would not allow so many people to be deceived. When I mentioned the counter example of Islam, he said that Islam is not an valid example because it spread under oppression

Too bad it took me a week later to figure out what's wrong with his argument, otherwise I could have spanked him on the spot. He is just trying to draw comfort from security in numbers

Tjun Kiat

Kevin Dorner · 01-01-2002, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scrutinizer:
It also indicates that God's existence is probably more likely than the existence of elves, as you don't see many intelligent people believing in elves!

1) I've yet to hear one claim that elves will reward you after death if you're "good". This draws in a lot of people who can't accept that this life is all they get.

2) I've yet to hear one claim that elves will punish you after death if you are "bad". This will also draw in many people who don't like that others might get away with things in this lifetime. They like the idea that there is an inescapable judgement after death. The dark side of this, of course, is that not only people who got away with crimes against persons or property will be punished in the "afterlife" but those who merely did something counter to the tenets of the believers, ie drank alcohol or went dancing. The last remnant that will hold most believers to their Abrahamic beliefs when they reject all else is the fear of punishment after death.

3) Elves are never described as all-powerful. Lots of believers like this aspects of the deity idea. They like to think that the universe (and our tiny existence) is being watched over by some all-encompassing force.

Elves are just tiny men with few or no special alleged powers. Start attributing some potent stuff to them, and people might believe in them more.

Pitshade · 01-01-2002, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Benjamin Franklin:
 When I mentioned the counter example of Islam, he said that Islam is not an valid example because it spread under oppression.

And Christianity didn't? Try mentioning the crusades, the conquistadores and the inquistion to him.

Pitshade · 01-01-2002, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scrutinizer:
The fact that many many people believe in God indicates that there is some sort of reason behind it. It also indicates that God's existence is probably more likely than the existence of elves, as you don't see many intelligent people believing in elves!

This is still not a valid argument. The fact that an idea is popular is never a indication that the idea is true. (argument ad populum) The statement, "many many people believe in God," tells us that belief in God is a popular idea, but nothing about why these people believe. The value of their idea can only be judged on the evidence that supports it, not on its number of adherents.

mongrel · 01-01-2002, 09:25 AM

Don't most people still believe a camel's hump(s) stores water? Lightning never strikes twice(one bloke in the U.S.(I think) was hit 7 times and survived if you believe the t.v. show I saw(a few years ago on discovery channel)?

12-31-2001, 11:23 PM	#11
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	However, different sects believe different things that cannot be true at the same time. The Trinity and the rejection of the Trinity cannot be true at the same time, for example. [ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

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01-01-2002, 03:36 AM	#12
Benjamin Franklin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 1,182	My Christian friend gave me another version of this proof. Christianity cannot be false because God would not allow so many people to be deceived. When I mentioned the counter example of Islam, he said that Islam is not an valid example because it spread under oppression Too bad it took me a week later to figure out what's wrong with his argument, otherwise I could have spanked him on the spot. He is just trying to draw comfort from security in numbers Tjun Kiat

01-01-2002, 09:25 AM	#16
mongrel Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North of the South Pole Posts: 5,177	Don't most people still believe a camel's hump(s) stores water? Lightning never strikes twice(one bloke in the U.S.(I think) was hit 7 times and survived if you believe the t.v. show I saw(a few years ago on discovery channel)?

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