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AspenMama · 07-09-2003, 08:45 PM

I grew up in Littleton. Columbine actually is not in Littleton but way too close for comfort. While the shootings caused some backlash against atheists, it finally came about how these two students were mecilessly bullied in school and there have been efforts in Colorado and nationwide to be more aware of bullying in schools. Many schools here now have an anti-bullying policy. While there is no way to excuse what they did-- it is generally accepted now that it was the bullying that led to their break-down and not their supposed atheism.

I still often wonder how their parents didn't notice the guns and many scary objects found in their rooms. I certainly would know if my children had an arsenal.

The whole "she said yes" thing is ridiculous. She was taking a wild guess what to say. She very likely would've been shot either way. If that is the true story.

Ape31 · 07-10-2003, 03:08 AM

Some stuff on Columbine over at Positive Atheism (there is more):
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/casshoax.htm
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/hellhaus.htm

Seems that at the very least there is a lot of doubt about exactly what happened but it may have actually been the other way around, a different kid may have been asked it she believed in god, answered "yes" and was spared.

r.

Jacey · 07-10-2003, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ape31
Seems that at the very least there is a lot of doubt about exactly what happened but it may have actually been the other way around, a different kid may have been asked it she believed in god, answered "yes" and was spared.

That is the case, I believe I read about it on the FFRF site. Can't get on that from work so I can't research it.

Also, Semper Fidelis (Always Faithful) is Latin and the Marine Corps Motto. Harris had met with a Marine recruiter not long (a week maybe?) before the shootings.

RevDahlia · 07-10-2003, 01:21 PM

I wonder if anyone will be speculating about this guy's religious beliefs years from now. Humph, I say.

GaryP · 07-10-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RevDahlia
I wonder if anyone will be speculating about this guy's religious beliefs years from now. Humph, I say.

If they had only posted the 10C's at his plant, he wouldn't have killed anyone!!!

Rhea · 07-10-2003, 07:39 PM

The Cassie story is bullshit, as far as I can tell. I have a document with links to all I could find, will post it tomorrow.

Cassie was never asked, according to her best friend who was hiding with her and staring her in the face when she was murdered. All the killer said to her was "peek-a-boo". Another girl was asked that and he did not shoot her.

However, Christians think that making up stories so that Jesus sounds good is a wonderful thing.

Anyone ever wonder what ELSE (early) Christians might have made up to make their religion look good? Makes mincemeat out of the Trilemma, doesn't it?

(barf. don't these people have any VALUES?)

Albion · 07-10-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

I wonder if anyone will be speculating about this guy's religious beliefs years from now. Humph, I say.

Won't make any difference. If he considered himself a Christian, he obviously wasn't a True Christian, so he might just as well have been atheist anyway.

PJPSYCO · 07-10-2003, 11:39 PM

I remmember seeing some of their drawings on an ABC special about the shootings. It seemed like the people they hated were supposedly minions of satan. I think that it was also mentioned in one of their letters. That also explains replacing the characters in Doom in which you kill minions of satan.

Seeker630 · 07-10-2003, 11:53 PM

Thanks for the links everyone--interesting stuff.

Rhea · 07-11-2003, 05:38 AM

Here's the set of info I had put together a while back on Bernall. It also gives some glimpses into Klebold/Harris. I would expect, if they _were_ avowed atheists, that it would have been shouted from the rooftops right then. It wasn't.

===========================================
Sept '99 article at Salon

Quote:

Sept. 23, 1999 | LITTLETON, Colo. -- They were never part of the Trench Coat Mafia. They didn't target jocks, minorities or Christians. They had a hit list, but nobody on it was hit. They expected their bombs and explosives would wipe out most of the school. ... The sources say that many of the most notorious events from the shooting spree -- repeated over and over in news reports, on TV chat shows and now in a bestselling book -- simply never occurred.

The details are shown here on page 2

Another article from 6 months later...

Quote:

readers guide to events on the police CD

But it wasn't until Sept. 24, one day after Salon News broke the story that investigators doubted Bernall's famous gunpoint declaration of faith, that the News printed a long story detailing Wyant's account.
How did the paper react so quickly, with a detailed, never-before-public account of Bernall's death, a day after the new revelations? Sources at the paper confirm that the details weren't actually new at all: They'd been sitting on the story for quite some time. The News ran the article nearly five months after obtaining the true story from Wyant, and two weeks after running news stories promoting the release of "She Said Yes: The Unlikely Martyrdom of Cassie Bernall" -- news stories that presented the account of Bernall's martyrdom as fact.

Quote:

article titled "supposed martyrdom"

Wyant is the only living person who actually witnessed Bernall's death. She was hiding beneath a table right beside Cassie when it happened. "Emily was right there next to her, and in fact, she was looking right in her eyes, so you'd think she would be able to hear that, being right next to her, if anything was exchanged. And she can't remember anything being said," Wyant explained.
As the Rocky Mountain News reported Sept. 24, Wyant and Bernall were studying alone together in the back of the library. After the gunmen rushed in, the girls crouched beneath a table together, and Cassie began praying aloud: "Dear God. Dear God. Why is this happening? I just want to go home." Dylan Klebold suddenly slammed his hand on the table, yelled "Peekaboo," and looked underneath. He shot Cassie without exchanging a word. Wyant's mother confirmed that the Rocky Mountain News correctly reported the details of her daughter's account.

Perhaps this is an example of why it has not been refuted publicly. It _is_ a tragic event, and some people seem to see it as an opportunity to fabricate a twist to the event that will gain religious conversion. Why they want converts on a lie is puzzling to me, but that is what is said here. http://www.columbine-angels.com/Cassie.htm
===========================================

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07-09-2003, 08:45 PM	#11
AspenMama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,311	I grew up in Littleton. Columbine actually is not in Littleton but way too close for comfort. While the shootings caused some backlash against atheists, it finally came about how these two students were mecilessly bullied in school and there have been efforts in Colorado and nationwide to be more aware of bullying in schools. Many schools here now have an anti-bullying policy. While there is no way to excuse what they did-- it is generally accepted now that it was the bullying that led to their break-down and not their supposed atheism. I still often wonder how their parents didn't notice the guns and many scary objects found in their rooms. I certainly would know if my children had an arsenal. The whole "she said yes" thing is ridiculous. She was taking a wild guess what to say. She very likely would've been shot either way. If that is the true story.

07-10-2003, 03:08 AM	#12
Ape31 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: London Posts: 365	Some stuff on Columbine over at Positive Atheism (there is more): http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/casshoax.htm http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/hellhaus.htm Seems that at the very least there is a lot of doubt about exactly what happened but it may have actually been the other way around, a different kid may have been asked it she believed in god, answered "yes" and was spared. r.

07-10-2003, 01:21 PM	#14
RevDahlia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 4,930	I wonder if anyone will be speculating about this guy's religious beliefs years from now. Humph, I say.

07-10-2003, 07:39 PM	#16
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	The Cassie story is bullshit, as far as I can tell. I have a document with links to all I could find, will post it tomorrow. Cassie was never asked, according to her best friend who was hiding with her and staring her in the face when she was murdered. All the killer said to her was "peek-a-boo". Another girl was asked that and he did not shoot her. However, Christians think that making up stories so that Jesus sounds good is a wonderful thing. Anyone ever wonder what ELSE (early) Christians might have made up to make their religion look good? Makes mincemeat out of the Trilemma, doesn't it? (barf. don't these people have any VALUES?)

07-10-2003, 11:39 PM	#18
PJPSYCO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rolla, Missouri Posts: 830	I remmember seeing some of their drawings on an ABC special about the shootings. It seemed like the people they hated were supposedly minions of satan. I think that it was also mentioned in one of their letters. That also explains replacing the characters in Doom in which you kill minions of satan.

07-10-2003, 11:53 PM	#19
Seeker630 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North America Posts: 1,624	Thanks for the links everyone--interesting stuff.

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