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Old 03-28-2004, 03:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Donjared
Whooee! I brought a firestorm down on me.
Insulting us tends to have negative reprecussions.
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For a while I made honest attempts to debate these charges with LITERALLY mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Quantity vs Quality. You can present whatever evidence you like (and I recommend that you do, we're tired of assertions) but if your evidence can't stand logical scrutiny it means exactly nothing.
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But it dawned on me one day, that these guys just don't care. They have made up their minds.
Actually many of us are willing to change our minds if evidence presents itself. Not that we're holding our breaths...
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Their Atheism is just as faith based as my Theism, only I can admit that and they can't.
Faith: Belief in the absence of evidence. Please explain to me how the LACK OF BELIEF has anything to do with faith.
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We all believe what we want to believe, period.
Actually some of us believe what the evidence points to wheras some of us ignore the evidence because they don't like what it says.
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No amount of evidence for or against the existence of God is going to change any of us.
Actually I used to be a chrisitan. It was the lack of evidence that made me become an atheist.
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So the beat goes on and on, since Christ walked the earth.
Great, now prove that he existed.
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If I (nor you) can convince them one way or the other, then honestly why should I give a hoot about offending them?
If you want to engage in rational discourse, you should care.
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Look at the things the say about the Father and the Son on some of these threads. And I should worry about offending them?
Sorry if you're offended that we've insulted your imaginary friends.
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Old 03-28-2004, 04:21 PM   #42
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They have made up their minds. Their Atheism is just as faith based as my Theism, only I can admit that and they can't.
I too, wish to beg to differ. I am an atheist, but I eagerly await proof that I have been wrong. What I want is a "discworld" situation, i.e. one in which gods pop round to atheist's houses to throw rocks through their windows (kudos to Terry Pratchett here). That's the kind of personal attention that would see me in church.
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Old 03-28-2004, 06:20 PM   #43
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You guys ARE pissed off at the Church, just read this thread.
Well I too have a smile on my face but of course you can't see it. First of all I wish you would stop calling me a fella or a guy. I am a WOO-man, a proud, atheist woman, that thinks for herself. It doesn't matter what the other atheists or Xians think. I sure have a lot to be angry about when it comes to Xianity if I were an angry person, so let me clue you in as to why.

Take these quotes from the Bible and some famous Xian leaders.

Ecclesiastes 7:26-28

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I find woman more bitter than death; she is a snare, her heart a net, her arms are chains. No wickedness
comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-12,15

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I desire that woman should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly...not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire...Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no women to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. Yet women will be saved through bearing children, if she contiues in faith and love and holiness, wtih modesty.
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1 Corrinthinans 14:33-36 It is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Wives should regard their husband as they regard the Lord. Women are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home
.

Job 25:4


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How can he be clean that he be born of woman.
1 Corrinthinans 14:33-36

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It is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Wives should regard their husband as they regard the Lord. Women are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home

St. Thomas Aquinas

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Woman is defective and accidental and misbegotten...a male gone awry..,.the result of some weakness in the father's generative power.
Martin Luther

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God created Adam lord of all living creatures, but Eve spoiled it all....Women should remain at home, sit still, keep house and bear and bring up children.....If a woman grows weary and, at last, dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it.
John Know ( founder of Scottish Presbyterianism )

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Woman in her greatest perfection was made to serve and obey man, not rule and command him.
Samuel Butler ( poet and Xian )

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The souls of women are so small that some believe they've none at all.
Karl Barth ( Swiss theologian )

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Woman is ontologically subordinate to man.
Pope PIUS XII

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The pains that since original sin, a mother has to suffer to give birth to her child only draw tighter the bonds that bind them; she loves it the more, the more pain it has cost her.


And one more that really should make me angry.

Dr. C.W. Shedd, Presbyterian minister in his pamphlet,
Letters on How to Treat a Woman

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Our family airdale will come clear across the yard for one pat on the head. The average wife is like that.
I am not angry because I am married to an enlightened atheist man who treats me as his equal and for 24 years we have enjoyed the utmost harmony, emotional and physical satisfaction as well as mutual respect and admiration for each other. I don't know how any self respecting woman can accept a doctrine which prefers to subjugate her, and uses her as the scapegoat for the failings of humanity. I'm not doubting that there are some in your church who do good works but that doesn't make the silly, outdated doctrine of the church any more credible.


May I suggest if you are worried about the lack of contributions from the godless, that you study the many historical women who were social reformers of all kinds. Almost everyone was a freethinker. Learn about the thinkers of the Age of Enlightenment and notice that most of them did not believe in the supernatural, then look at the most progressive scientists of the past 100 years and you will find almost everyone an atheist or agnostic. We atheists have a long proud history of contributing to the improvement of humanity. If you would educate yourself wtih an open mind, you would realize that. If some of us are angry, well we are only human and we have plenty of reasons to be angry.

You on the other hand come here to our community and seem only interested in pushing emotional buttons and casting aspersions. Maybe you should ask yourself why that's the case. Maybe you should try and investigate objectively why some atheists seem to be angry.

...and you haven't riled me up. I always enjoy an opportunity to educate [edit of implied insult..]
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Old 03-28-2004, 06:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Donjared
The best I can hope to do is rile someone up enough to want to waste their time writing me back.
Are you really sure that this is something you wish to admit? That you are intentionally writing in such a manner as to ruffle a few feathers, simply as a means of engendering a response?

This practice has a name. It is called trolling. At best, it is rather heavily frowned upon. At worst, well... hmmm.

What little else that remains of your response that I have culled is simply you demonstrating your confirmation bias. You come to an atheistic website, insult the atheists assembled therein, and then gleefully pat yourself on the back when we respond with some degree of rancor? Please. :banghead:
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Old 03-28-2004, 06:26 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Donjared
Their Atheism is just as faith based as my Theism, only I can admit that and they can't.
Incorrect, as I am an atheist and have no faith whatsoever.

Sincerely,

Goliath
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Donjared
I also understand that the good we do is MY focus, while the occasional bad is YOUR focus. I also understand that no amount of good we do will ever redeem us from your hatred because you are bigoted and angry and thats the root of it all.
Boy, if that's not a clear-cut case of projection, I don't know what would be.
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Old 03-28-2004, 09:38 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Donjared
Whooee! I brought a firestorm down on me. A dash of flame really peaks interest no? Hey man, I don't know what the heck you guys believe. Every time one of you guys makes a claim, and I believe it, then another one of you comes along and says I'm assuming what you believe. I got my information from the articles that are provided here. I also have left feedback in the feedback forum from a couple of those articles I read. So whats the big whoop about making the claim? You guys ARE pissed off at the Church, just read this thread. I just wanted to know why and a few of the more serious and dispassionate types have given me that answer. Thank you.

As for my fellow Theist. Thanks for your experience and the advice. Truth be told, in person to person discussions I'm not quite so provocative. These guys can't see me smiling as I write, or as I read their responses. So I have long given up being fully understood on these forums. The best I can hope to do is rile someone up enough to want to waste their time writing me back. Some of their responses are coherent and educational, some are just the expected rants. I can cull through the baloney.
Also I certainly can understand their being bored and irritated with responding to the same old questions. I am the same way with regards to "the Church is corrupt and the Bible is inaccurate" schtick. Thats why I haven't responded to any of it here. I've heard that crap all my life, but particularly in college. For a while I made honest attempts to debate these charges with LITERALLY mountains of evidence to the contrary. I have a room full of Apologetical works by highly respected scholars (in the Christian community that is). But it dawned on me one day, that these guys just don't care. They have made up their minds. Their Atheism is just as faith based as my Theism, only I can admit that and they can't. We all believe what we want to believe, period. No amount of evidence for or against the existence of God is going to change any of us. So the beat goes on and on, since Christ walked the earth. If I (nor you) can convince them one way or the other, then honestly why should I give a hoot about offending them? Look at the things the say about the Father and the Son on some of these threads. And I should worry about offending them?
Oh yeah, and I like beer to! In fact I brew my own.
Like to spend more time but I am late for Church. Buh bye
Moving to ~E~ b/c of that alone..

-Krosis GRD moderator
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:11 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Donjared
Whooee! I brought a firestorm down on me. A dash of flame really peaks interest no? [snip] I just wanted to know why and a few of the more serious and dispassionate types have given me that answer. Thank you.
Oh I get it. We're like those ticklish persons. You poke'em with your finger to see them squirm. And when they get mad because they really really don't like being tickled, you're like "Hey man, why so angry, just wanted to get your attention! Chill."

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The best I can hope to do is rile someone up enough to want to waste their time writing me back.
And the best way to keep away any thought of wishing to be Christian is to talk to them. They're walking, talking anti-advertisments.

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If I (nor you) can convince them one way or the other, then honestly why should I give a hoot about offending them? Look at the things the say about the Father and the Son on some of these threads. And I should worry about offending them?
If you can't convince us one way or another, and you have no interest in at least comparing worldviews, why don't you leave us alone and find another means of entertainment?
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Donjared
I cant abide the "Christianity increases human misery" comment.
Yes, I suppose those sects which oppose abortion, and especially any form of birth control/contraception think that overpopulating the earth to the point of exhausting the world's resources, mass starvation, and rampant epidemics (look at the Third World for examples) is just a happy-joy-fun walk with Jeebus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
Everyone likes to bring up Homo's... We don't hate them, we go out our way to help them.<<snip>> Its because people feel vulnerable and helpless and are looking for God to make it all better.
Yes, let's catch people at their lowest and most vulnerable, and keep them from breaking free by telling them they're evil, sinful, lowly worms, but hey! there's hope, Jeebus loves you! :boohoo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
I admit I was flaming a little (strictly in the hetero way ofcourse)
Are we THAT afraid of homosexuality? Cripes, I'd rather be gay than xian!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
And why do think Christianity impedes progress. Wheres that the case? 13th or 14th century Italy? Certainly not the good ol Christian US of A.
Nope, not here. Never a bit of xian opposition to vaccines, transplants (and surgery in general - might disprove the "Adam's rib" myth), evolutionary theory (backed by centuries of scientific observation, as opposed to creationist MYTH), genetic research, stem cell research, equal rights for women and minorities, contraception, sex education, divorce (which IS for the better in some cases), oh, and let's not forget religious freedom. Does the term "Luddite" ring a bell? :banghead: :banghead:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
And does Atheism facilitate progress?
:banghead: Atheism, as you still don't seem to understand, is purely a LACK OF GOD-BELIEF, nothing more. It is NOT a philosophy or religion. As such, Atheism cannot foster progress, any more than your lack of belief in Buddha, Vishnu, Thor, Odin, or Zeus fosters progress. On the other hand, AtheistS (as well as Agnostics) make up a fair percentage of the scientific community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
I think that the natural ramification of Atheism is that we all surrender to to the monster in us. We stop believing that we have anything Godlike within us and just ignore the voice that says,"Hey man that isn't RIGHT."
Blatantly false. :banghead: The only thing you may have right is that fear of gawd is the only thing that keeps xians from raping, murdering, pillaging, etc. Atheists act ethically because it's in our interest as well as that of society as a whole. All our actions have consequences in THIS world. The "Golden Rule" is a much better standard for behavior than any "holy" book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
If we are not created in the image of a loving God, than we are simply beasts.
If we act ethically purely out of fear, we are lower than beasts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
Whooee! I brought a firestorm down on me.
That sometimes happens when you light matches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjared
We all believe what we want to believe, period. No amount of evidence for or against the existence of God is going to change any of us.
:banghead: No, YOU believe what you want to believe. I'm sure most of us, if presented with incontrovertible evidence (that being an appearance "in person"), would believe in your deity. Appeals to emotions or fear are not evidence, nor is a book of fables written by technologically challenged goatherders. We're not the ones who are so desperate to believe as to ignore reality.
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Old 03-28-2004, 11:01 PM   #50
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I'm sorry, he must be talking about me.

I'm the angry atheist. Well, I'm really a satanist because all atheists worship Satan whether they know it or not. But atheist sounds cooler and less scary.

So I was really annoyed when my Christian neighbors kept calling the police as I was drawing the pentagram getting ready to sacrifice their baby on my altar, but the whole bit about loving me just really pissed me off. I mean, I wanted to hate them so much and they had the audacity to tell me they loved me? If they loved me, they'd let me sacrifice their child!

and that whole thing about being struck by lightning twelve separate times so far, I'm really annoyed that, and I'm more than annoyed that I don't believe in a god to blame so I just have to take someone else's god and the Christian one is more convenient.

That's not even mentioning the whole bit of having Jesus come down weekly and try to convince me that that whole crucifixion trick isn't really a joke. I mean, the teleportation trick is kind of cool showing up right next to me but I saw them do it on Star Trek so someone must know how to do it, right?

So that's why I hate Christians.
___

(Or.. it could just be that I get annoyed with people who keep trying to convert me after I say I'm not interested, but that's too simple an explanation. Christians that don't do this are fine by my book...)
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