BDS

Exactly, cheetah.

Beetle is projecting. Just because the only reason HE would be in a bar on a Saturday night is in a (doubtless) vain attempt to get laid, that doesn't mean everyone else has the same motivation. Hey! Some of us are alcoholics!

But, Cheetah, I don't think anyone older than 21 should get decorating ideas from bars. Take down those Budweiser signs, boys and girls, once you get out of high school.

Also, if any guy is really that desparate he can always ask, "So, do you have a boyfriend?"

Or, "What's a sensational woman like you doing out alone? Where's your boyfriend?"

Or, "I dare not beg a kiss,
I dare not ask a smile,
Lest gaining that or this,
I should grow proud the while.

No! No! The utmost share
Of my desire shall be:
Only to kiss the air
That lately kissed thee."

BDS

More fun in bars:

Of course the best way to get one's jollies in a bar on a Saturday night is to seek out women who are there with their boyfriends. Ideally, they should be in some corner of the bar, actually making out with some guy, but lacking that they might simply be standing arm in arm with their sweetheart.

Our hero approaches: "Excuse me, but are you WITH anyone?"

"Hey! What the f, pal! I'M with her," says the burly escort.

"Oh. I'm terribly sorry. I didn't even notice you."

HaysooChreesto!

When I was single my philosophy was to be as aggressive as possible but I was never rude when turned down. I never went with the "can I buy you a drink" line because it was a line and to me it sounds really cheesy. Lines are lame and after they're said you're still on your own to be creative and come up with at least semi-interesting conversation.

The only thing I resented about almost always having to take the lead was that it seemed it was up to me to be the circus clown. It was my job to keep the conversation flowing and be entertaining. But I was more successful than most guys at it so I must have been doing something right at times.
It took a lot of energy though and after a while it got exhausting.

I had my share of one night stands and follow ups from those but most of the time I wasn't looking for that. I just wanted to meet a decent girl that I could date and get to know better. I think it's true that most guys will take quick sex if the opportunity is presented but that doesn't mean that's all they want.

And ladies, it's very simple. If you aren't interested in a guy, just tell him and give the drink back to him. If he's any kind of gentlemen he'll tell you to keep it and go about his business.

Loren Pechtel

The issue is not a conversation at a bar. The issue is accepting the offer of a drink at the bar.

cheetah

I disagree. That may be the issue for you, but many of the posters here have made the actual conversation the issue, and some have said none of it is an issue. Obviously there are a wide array of opinions.

BDS

The same holds for accepting a drink, Loren. I agree this is a different problem, however. In general, if a man or a woman (no difference here) accepts a drink from a relative stranger in a bar, he or she is obligated by custom to keep that person company while finishing the drink. That's all.

I would think it would be very strange to have a conversation like this:

"May I buy you a drink?"

"I should warn you, I have a boyfriend."

"He's not a Hells Angel, who is spying on you and just waiting to beat the crap out of the first person who buys you a drink, is he?"

The boyfriend or husband is irrelevent to whether one should accept a drink, as is gender. Many times I've struck up conversations with other men in a (straight) bar and either bought them the next round, or had them do the same for me.

Personally, I think a woman (or man) who would accept a drink from a perfect stranger is a little cheap, if the offer is made in person, rather than, "Ill buy one for the house.". But to accept a drink after ten minutes of conversation is perfectly acceptable, although, if you're not bored by the end of that drink, custom requres you to stand the next round.

Beetle

Why isn't honesty the best policy? Why not be considerate of the other person? If a woman goes to a place where they know many people are trolling for "Miss Right Now" (except in the sensitive Amish community where BDS apparently lives ) why not make clear her unavailability? If he's a decent guy who actually just wants nice conversation, he'll stick around.

The Other Michael

Gosh, I knew I was exceptional, but hadn't realized that was why.

I can recall a number of instances of saying to myself "self, those women over there look bored just sitting there, maybe they're waiting for someone to ask them to dance". After working up my limited courage I'd go over and about 9 out of 9.111 times would get turned down.

While I have severe doubts about my innate hunkiness, I'm a presentable guy (and was an OK dancer if I could get a song that was in a beat that matched the different drummer I was dancing to), and I'll admit that I found the whole "let's go to the dance place and avoid dancing" pretty unfathomable. Along with the smoking/non-smoking sections I wish they'd had dancing/non-dancing sections too, just to make it a bit easier to pick out someone who was interested.

I think I can honestly say that I harbored very few illusions about anything other a dance (or rejection) resulting from the offer, but I for one certainly would have been much more pleased at the end of the night if I'd managed to get a couple of hours of dancing in.

That social stuff is really confusing much of the time.

cheers,
Michael

godfry n. glad

That makes for a lot of competition in a very small pool.

I guess that works if you got the goods to pull it off.

'Course, I always thought trolling the bar scene was an invitation for "share and share alike", vis a vis STD. I pretty much stayed away from it.

godfry

Dr. Retard

The morals I'm drawing from all of this:

(1) I am abnormally asocial and weak-libido'd. Who in the world would talk to a stranger just to make conversation??? Who in the world would talk to a stranger just to have sex with that stranger???

(2) There is no agreement on the prevailing customs of 'social life' in bars, clubs, etc. Some people say that hanging out there signals an interest in courtship, and accordingly, that one is romantically unattached. Others say that it does not signal any such thing, that many people are there just for conversation. This suggests to me that it is morally dangerous to rely on these customs to inform others of your intentions and your situation. Which means that everyone should be straightforward and candid about their intentions and their situation. If you want courtship, then say so. If you don't, then say so. Without candor, people end up misinformed and deceived. And that sucks.

I'll add that this reinforces my long-held convictions about not approaching, conversing with, and socializing with attractive women simply because they are attractive women. Doing so is likely to give the impression that you are interested in them for their conversation and character. But this is false. You are interested in them because they are attractive women. So you are misleading them. And that's wrong, or at least a bad idea. I think this is why it seems so "creepy and manipulative".