Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jayjay · 03-02-2003, 09:05 PM

"There are no True Christian Scotsmen."

Why is it that a particular variant of christianity, namely lukewarm western fundamentalism, gets to be the "real" christianity? All religions are ultimately defined by their adherents and their actions, not by some semi-historical ancient narratives. If someone slashes the tires of your car and paints a red swastika on the windshield, it's a small consolation that they weren't "real christians", "real muslims", or "real communists". What's important is to expose the culture of violence and intolerance that particular religions/ideologies harbor and weed it out instead of making up excuses.

hezekiah jones · 03-02-2003, 10:15 PM

Radorth:
"... the non-Christian versions of Christianity ..."

lol!

Radorth:
"I might be in love."

With a married bachelor.

Paul2 · 03-03-2003, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Are Marx and the Communist Manifesto, the former idols of atheists everywhere, reponsible for Stalin's acts then?

Are you fucking serious?

Kintaro · 03-03-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote(Evangelion) :

If this was Nazism or apartheid we were talking about, then yes, you would have such a case, because both of these systems taught and encouraged the persecution of certain minority groups. But Christianity does no such thing.

I agree with you. Christianity (edit: "some flavors" of christianity, not all are sick fracks with Convert Or Die slogans) encourages the persecution of ALL minority groups, and scream for "tolerance" where they're the minority.

Thus the topic : Christians persecute Buddhists. People VS people. Not the whole faith movements on either side, but one isn't born with *cough* Jesus *cough* in their minds. So yeah, it takes a movement to spread the faith. Most of the moderates "don't mind" that radicals exist. Until I see the mainstream flush out the radicals (never happened, never will), blaming the faith isn't that far off.

And I don't care if you have an intelligent rebuttal on this.

***
You're trying to say that only Nazi Germany and pushers of apartheid can "form" their followers to do such a thing. Any system of beliefs can be considered a path of life, and anyone can be taught to hate one sect, two sects, red sects, blue sects. It can be veganism (PETA rings a bell ?), it can be christianity (The Americas, since 1492) , it can be anything in between, or something not in between. Even atheists since there is no formal belief system, or set of ethics. Each person is unique, especially in their atheism. (the proof that I'm not biased like you, I include the fact that people like me could act such a way)
***

Why don't I care if you have a rebuttal or not ? You stuck your foot in your mouth. If that's your new starting point, I can't see anywhere better than neutral that you'd end up.

hinduwoman · 03-04-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evangelion
I note with interest that these incidents have a consistently regional flavour.

So...

...let's just remember that the Christians featured in your articles are actually Asians themselves. "Missionaries", perhaps - but local converts all.

IOW, blame the individuals, not the belief system.

Christianity is not to be held responsible for the stupidity of a few nutters.

But what are the principles of christianity? Does not the Church (of whatever variety) teach that only christ saves, and all other religions are Satanic? Is it not the reason that the history of christianity is bloodstained, and why these Christians are attacking the Buddhists?

03-04-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
But what are the principles of christianity? Does not the Church (of whatever variety) teach that only christ saves, and all other religions are Satanic? Is it not the reason that the history of christianity is bloodstained, and why these Christians are attacking the Buddhists?

It would be good to recognize that "the history of christianity" as you put it, is bloodstained for the same reason Buddhists are attacked now. In other words, it is not Budhisms fault for being Buddhists anymore than it was Catholicisms fault for being Catholic. Both are attacked in the same way and for the same reason. Do you understand that?

wade-w · 03-05-2003, 12:24 PM

Amos:

For most of xianity's history, catholics have rarely been victims. Persecution of anyone who isn't part of the fold is part of the history of almost every christian sect. And catholicism is more guilty than most.

03-05-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wade-w
Amos:

For most of xianity's history, catholics have rarely been victims. .

Do you know of any other religion that had their icons smashed besides Catholics and now Buddhist? Is it also not true that the same mentality is responsible for such actions? As for the rest of you accusations, I really don't know the reason behind it all but it sounds like you do.

philechat · 03-05-2003, 04:21 PM

Come on, Amos.

History are full of religious icons destroyed for political and religious reasons, and it would not be limited to Catholicism and Buddhism. A great number of ancient Roman Pagan temples were burned down (the temple of Serapis in Alexandria, for example) and Pagan icons destroyed after Christianity became the official religion of Rome. The Bible were full of commandments for the Jews to destroy the religious objects and items of its neighbors. In Scandenavia the temples of Asatru religions were burned down after the kings converted to Christianity. In ancient Chinese history the Buddhists were persecuted more than once (the "Three Wu" religious intolerance). In modern India there are still many instances of Hindu and Muslim temples vandelized in Hindu-Muslim riots.

Need I say more?

Fiach · 03-05-2003, 09:38 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Radorth
Well the non-Christian versions of Christianity could be I suppose.

I am shocked that you didn't deny the whole story by saying that you don't believe that the wankers are Chrsitians just because they identify as Chrsitians.

Are Marx and the Communist Manifesto, the former idols of atheists everywhere, reponsible for Stalin's acts then?

As I shouldn't be surprised, you twist a story of Christian persecution of Buddhists into a very bigoted slur against "atheists everywhere." What the feck do Atheists have to do with Christian behaviour?????? I guess Joe McCarthy, Christian political leader's legacy is still big in the USA.

You implied that I, as an atheist necessarily idoliseMarx and the Manifesto. Well, if so you are a fecking liar. Prove it. Prove that I had any association or wrote supporting communism.

I didn't think so.

Did I ever accuse you of thinking? I just think that you are an ignorant Chrsitian fanatic, the moral equivalent of Al Qaeda. I remember that your leaders, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell think as you. They blamed Atheists, and others for the attack on 9-11. Remember 9-11 was done by religious fanatics more like you. They were not Atheists. Eric Rudolf, Buford Furrow, Benjamin Smith, and the wanker on the news today for killing a doctor. I could also mention the Christian KKK, the Order, Christian Identity, Church of Jesus Christ Christian (Aryan Nations), the Army of God, and the American Christian White People's Party. And you slime bags blame everything wrong on atheists. but by religious extremists

Jesus will never be forgiven for breaking that table leg, apparently.

What a stupid metaphor, that goddamn table leg shite is getting worn out. Can't your little brain do better than that? You keep libelling atheists and I am going to return thrust and parry.

Fiach

03-05-2003, 09:38 PM	#20
Fiach Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 602	YOU JUST COULDN'T RESIST. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Radorth Well the non-Christian versions of Christianity could be I suppose. I am shocked that you didn't deny the whole story by saying that you don't believe that the wankers are Chrsitians just because they identify as Chrsitians. Are Marx and the Communist Manifesto, the former idols of atheists everywhere, reponsible for Stalin's acts then? As I shouldn't be surprised, you twist a story of Christian persecution of Buddhists into a very bigoted slur against "atheists everywhere." What the feck do Atheists have to do with Christian behaviour?????? I guess Joe McCarthy, Christian political leader's legacy is still big in the USA. You implied that I, as an atheist necessarily idoliseMarx and the Manifesto. Well, if so you are a fecking liar. Prove it. Prove that I had any association or wrote supporting communism. I didn't think so. Did I ever accuse you of thinking? I just think that you are an ignorant Chrsitian fanatic, the moral equivalent of Al Qaeda. I remember that your leaders, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell think as you. They blamed Atheists, and others for the attack on 9-11. Remember 9-11 was done by religious fanatics more like you. They were not Atheists. Eric Rudolf, Buford Furrow, Benjamin Smith, and the wanker on the news today for killing a doctor. I could also mention the Christian KKK, the Order, Christian Identity, Church of Jesus Christ Christian (Aryan Nations), the Army of God, and the American Christian White People's Party. And you slime bags blame everything wrong on atheists. but by religious extremists Jesus will never be forgiven for breaking that table leg, apparently. What a stupid metaphor, that goddamn table leg shite is getting worn out. Can't your little brain do better than that? You keep libelling atheists and I am going to return thrust and parry. Fiach

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03-02-2003, 09:05 PM	#11
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	"There are no True Christian Scotsmen." Why is it that a particular variant of christianity, namely lukewarm western fundamentalism, gets to be the "real" christianity? All religions are ultimately defined by their adherents and their actions, not by some semi-historical ancient narratives. If someone slashes the tires of your car and paints a red swastika on the windshield, it's a small consolation that they weren't "real christians", "real muslims", or "real communists". What's important is to expose the culture of violence and intolerance that particular religions/ideologies harbor and weed it out instead of making up excuses.

03-02-2003, 10:15 PM	#12
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Radorth: "... the non-Christian versions of Christianity ..." lol! Radorth: "I might be in love." With a married bachelor.

03-03-2003, 05:24 PM	#14
Kintaro Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 247	Quote(Evangelion) : If this was Nazism or apartheid we were talking about, then yes, you would have such a case, because both of these systems taught and encouraged the persecution of certain minority groups. But Christianity does no such thing. I agree with you. Christianity (edit: "some flavors" of christianity, not all are sick fracks with Convert Or Die slogans) encourages the persecution of ALL minority groups, and scream for "tolerance" where they're the minority. Thus the topic : Christians persecute Buddhists. People VS people. Not the whole faith movements on either side, but one isn't born with cough Jesus cough in their minds. So yeah, it takes a movement to spread the faith. Most of the moderates "don't mind" that radicals exist. Until I see the mainstream flush out the radicals (never happened, never will), blaming the faith isn't that far off. And I don't care if you have an intelligent rebuttal on this. * You're trying to say that only Nazi Germany and pushers of apartheid can "form" their followers to do such a thing. Any system of beliefs can be considered a path of life, and anyone can be taught to hate one sect, two sects, red sects, blue sects. It can be veganism (PETA rings a bell ?), it can be christianity (The Americas, since 1492) , it can be anything in between, or something not in between. Even atheists since there is no formal belief system, or set of ethics. Each person is unique, especially in their atheism. (the proof that I'm not biased like you, I include the fact that people like me could act such a way) * Why don't I care if you have a rebuttal or not ? You stuck your foot in your mouth. If that's your new starting point, I can't see anywhere better than neutral that you'd end up.

03-05-2003, 12:24 PM	#17
wade-w Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Silver City, New Mexico Posts: 1,872	Amos: For most of xianity's history, catholics have rarely been victims. Persecution of anyone who isn't part of the fold is part of the history of almost every christian sect. And catholicism is more guilty than most.

03-05-2003, 04:21 PM	#19
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	Come on, Amos. History are full of religious icons destroyed for political and religious reasons, and it would not be limited to Catholicism and Buddhism. A great number of ancient Roman Pagan temples were burned down (the temple of Serapis in Alexandria, for example) and Pagan icons destroyed after Christianity became the official religion of Rome. The Bible were full of commandments for the Jews to destroy the religious objects and items of its neighbors. In Scandenavia the temples of Asatru religions were burned down after the kings converted to Christianity. In ancient Chinese history the Buddhists were persecuted more than once (the "Three Wu" religious intolerance). In modern India there are still many instances of Hindu and Muslim temples vandelized in Hindu-Muslim riots. Need I say more?

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