Freethought & Rationalism Archive

miscreant · 04-19-2002, 06:46 AM

What about missionaries though? Christianity has infiltrated many cultures that were not indoctrinating their children into that religion to start with. So I would have to think that there are a lot of gullible adults out there as well who were willing to give up their own religions to convert to christianity.

Granted, then the missionaries went and set up the schools, so they also targeted the young, but I don't think that would happen without the parents silence on the issue.

free12thinker · 04-19-2002, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Indifference:
How big a part does age play in the continued belief of religion? Would Christianity still be around if we didn't brainwash our children at such an early age? It's hard for me to say, because I was raised in a Christian home, but somehow escaped the cluches. Granted... it took awhile. But i did. Thank Dog!

It's sad though. Everytime I hear someone talk about God, i feel like I need to apologize for our specie's gullibility.

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Indifference ]

Religion would not be around if we didn't teach our children about it. They certainly wouldn't "feel it" like people claim they do. If we were to cease all discussions about religion today, burn all bibles and things like that, it would completely dissapear. But..it won't dissapear. It won't because to those who believe in it, religion is essential. Because once you believe in its healing, you want to pass along such healing. And your belief only grows because everyone else's belief is already there. You're an exception as you were able to bow out unscathed. But most people have the "Follow the crowd" kind of approach, and not only with religion.

Dianna · 04-19-2002, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Rimstalker: Putting on ym Jebus' advocate hat here... can you show how education is different from indoctrination?

Education is teaching someone how to find answers. Indoctrination is telling someone what the answers are.

Dianna.

Gurdur · 04-19-2002, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cloudyphiz:

indoctrination is key to the success of the xianity meme; i seriously doubt that it could survive without it.

Unfortunately, this kind of view always begs the question; insisting that the success of religion depends on indoctrination, especially, parent-child indoctrination, completely fails to explain adult converts - and they exist in large numbers throughout history - and also and most importantly completely fails to explain the origins of religion.

BTW, to describe Christianity as a meme is downright wrong, as well as contradicting your own view; if you want to use memetics, then Christianity would be a group of memeplexes, not a single meme; and if Christianity is a super-memeplex, then obviously its success does not depend solely or even mainly on forcible indoctrination.

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]

Indifference · 04-19-2002, 08:01 AM

Rimstalker quote: "Putting on ym Jebus' advocate hat here... can you show how education is different from indoctrination?"

Educators persue and offer knowledge.
Indocrinators flee from and hide knowledge.

miscreant quote: "What about missionaries though? Christianity has infiltrated many cultures that were not indoctrinating their children into that religion to start with. So I would have to think that there are a lot of gullible adults out there as well who were willing to give up their own religions to convert to christianity."

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think most missionaries are done in lesser developed countries where people feel suppressed. They are more ripe for a revolution, or a new way of doing things, or a new religion. Because, obviously, the god they currently pray to isn't up to snuff.

miscreant · 04-19-2002, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Indifference:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think most missionaries are done in lesser developed countries where people feel suppressed. They are more ripe for a revolution, or a new way of doing things, or a new religion. Because, obviously, the god they currently pray to isn't up to snuff.

Not these days. These days they're sending missionaries back to the developed countries (like Britian) because we're all becomeing godless heathens!

However, that wouldn't account for the start of religions. I don't think religion would disappear because there would always be the people around who were too afraid to not believe. Especially in religions where there is a punishment for not believing (eternal damnation, etc...)

Miscreant

Godless Dave · 04-19-2002, 08:11 AM

The people targeted by missionaries already have a religion, so all the missionaries have to do is tell them that Christianity, or whatever, is a better religion than the one the targets are already practicing. They aren't converting atheists.

Indifference · 04-19-2002, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by miscreant:
However, that wouldn't account for the start of religions.

Perhaps this should be an entirely new topic, but i have a few ideas.

It doesn't have to account for the start, because i don't honestly believe, if we had a clean religious pallet, that religion would start back up again. Science is the arch nemesis of religion. Theism only had the chance to arise in the ABSENCE of science. Primitive man had no idea what that bright thing was in the sky, so he gave it human qualities. But noone today would be so foolish as to suggest that lightning, or rain, or fire, or the sun were gods--these are the ancestors of the Christian God. Without them, there is no Christianity.

Daydreamer · 04-19-2002, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samhain:
Education is the only way to break the bonds of ignorant superstitions.

Here, here! Bravo!

Curious Mind · 04-19-2002, 02:45 PM

I think that, despite what many Christians would argue today, Christianity will eventually wither away completely or almost completely. I think it's funny to see how the "godless satan-worshipping" teenagers may not be the most moral, but are generally far more intelligent and rational than the sheltered ignorant youths who seem bright but head nowhere.

The fundie movement sure does resist education though, doesn't it? These people ought to just come out and say what's really on their minds: We want to control the government, tell everyone they have to be Christians, and push our view onto other people. In other words, remake the Dark Ages.

It's so hard being an atheist in the Bible belt. It's like there's a wall of pressure surrounding me, and when I explain my beliefs, people may not come right out and say it, but they really feel a lot of disdain towards that belief. (Some probably think it's satanism or something..)

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04-19-2002, 06:46 AM	#11
miscreant Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 170	What about missionaries though? Christianity has infiltrated many cultures that were not indoctrinating their children into that religion to start with. So I would have to think that there are a lot of gullible adults out there as well who were willing to give up their own religions to convert to christianity. Granted, then the missionaries went and set up the schools, so they also targeted the young, but I don't think that would happen without the parents silence on the issue.

04-19-2002, 08:01 AM	#15
Indifference Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 165	Rimstalker quote: "Putting on ym Jebus' advocate hat here... can you show how education is different from indoctrination?" Educators persue and offer knowledge. Indocrinators flee from and hide knowledge. miscreant quote: "What about missionaries though? Christianity has infiltrated many cultures that were not indoctrinating their children into that religion to start with. So I would have to think that there are a lot of gullible adults out there as well who were willing to give up their own religions to convert to christianity." Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think most missionaries are done in lesser developed countries where people feel suppressed. They are more ripe for a revolution, or a new way of doing things, or a new religion. Because, obviously, the god they currently pray to isn't up to snuff.

04-19-2002, 08:11 AM	#17
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	The people targeted by missionaries already have a religion, so all the missionaries have to do is tell them that Christianity, or whatever, is a better religion than the one the targets are already practicing. They aren't converting atheists.

04-19-2002, 02:45 PM	#20
Curious Mind Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Georgia Posts: 20	I think that, despite what many Christians would argue today, Christianity will eventually wither away completely or almost completely. I think it's funny to see how the "godless satan-worshipping" teenagers may not be the most moral, but are generally far more intelligent and rational than the sheltered ignorant youths who seem bright but head nowhere. The fundie movement sure does resist education though, doesn't it? These people ought to just come out and say what's really on their minds: We want to control the government, tell everyone they have to be Christians, and push our view onto other people. In other words, remake the Dark Ages. It's so hard being an atheist in the Bible belt. It's like there's a wall of pressure surrounding me, and when I explain my beliefs, people may not come right out and say it, but they really feel a lot of disdain towards that belief. (Some probably think it's satanism or something..)

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