Rhea

Don't flatter yourself. You're assuming too much.

beth

Very few people have delved into this and none of the theists really wished to discuss this. I was not trying to entrap or ensnare. I am trying to understand so that I do not become embittered with the Christians around me. It is very difficult to remain open and non-predudiced against a segment of people who continue to slight you.

I wonder if Christians could honestly explain why atheism is more of a threat than other beliefs. I do not hear preachers on TV ranting about the Buddhists, but I do hear them ranting about the evil atheists. I understand that I perhaps seem like I have a persecution complex, but I do not. I am understating all that I see around me. Perhaps it is the demographics. My county has the second highest number of religious congregations in Florida. So perhaps this is the reason.
Would you be more likely to try to guilt and shame someone who seems to actually care about your words and thoughts than to bother someone who is more millitant?

It also puzzles me why the non-religious people would be upset at the "atheist" word. I understand the Christian reaction more than I do the non-Christians alarm at atheism. Perhaps it will take many generations to work this out in this country. Perhaps we should follow the examples of other minority groups and have better organized, more accessible atheist activism groups. I just don't think it is right for a theist to be able to declare belief in a god/s but we are expected to keep our disbelief silent.

wildernesse

As a Christian who does not see atheism as an attack on my beliefs or person/way of life/freedom to believe/etc, I don't know the answers to your questions, Blondegoddess. I don't see atheism as a threat, much less a threat more than any other religion.

People become defensive when they are insecure about their beliefs/behavior/etc. When someone a Christian knows well, purposefully turns away from the faith it could be a challenging time for those who remain Christians as they may feel that their foundation is not as firm as it once was thought to be. It only shows the weakness (albeit human) in those who become defensive.

I also don't know the answer to your "traditional woman" questions, as they are as much removed from my ideas about what a woman can be (anything she likes) as the east is from the west. I'm sure for people who hold on to the image of woman as only a pretty thing that makes babies, the fact of a woman thinking and acting indepedently is frightening all by itself, never mind what she's thinking about.

I find jerky people to be strange, myself, and I try to do my best not to be one--with limited success, I'm afraid.
--tibac

Radorth

I agree.

It must be demographics. If you move to California, I think you'll find quite the opposite "understanding." I hardly feel persecuted, but if I started writing letters to my family about my conversion, a couple of them would quit coming to Thanksgiving dinner. It doesn't occur to you apparently that unbelievers hate having their own beliefs undermined.

I find it rather presumptious to say it only works one way, and bordering on the absurd to say Christians in America suffer no rejection for speaking their minds. I have no doubt that if I lived in a community dominated by atheists, "freethought" would be highly frowned upon by certain noisy, insecure individuals.

Concerning women, I'm as mystified as Wildernesse. Other than two or three statements by Paul, I see no reason in the NT for women to do anything but keep their promises. I do see a tendency to decide they are unhappy and blame it on those around them- but that is common to man as well.

Rad

The Naked Mage

We don't see it as "undermining" so much as "degenerating", and that's why we hate it. It's a sad sight.

Concerning this and other statements of yours re. Paul: it's fairly plain to most of us that Paul had some problems.

beth

I do understand that Christians are at time ridiculed, but usually it does not occur in communities of Christians. I feel for those of all beliefs that face persecution. But I think it is very unlikely for someone to outright call someone 'evil' just because they converted to Christianity. It is generally thought that an atheist is 'evil'. I am sorry that your family would not accept your conversion to Christianity.

As a christian, the only time I would ever face ridicule would be when I openly witnessed to them. I never faced any offhand remarks or comments about my beliefs when I merely stated I was a Christian. But now that my atheism is known by some, they are thinking twice about even having me in their homes. Granted, my siblings are not doing this.
The general thought of the men around me is that a woman is under the man, she should be good and godly, and not speak her mind. The women generally tend to follow along with that idea.This is especially the southern evangelical veiw. When a woman even drinks in some areas, she is no longer considered a lady.

I am not unhappy and I am not trying to blame anything on anyone else. In fact, I often blame things that are unrelated to me, on myself. I am trying to understand people right now so that I will not add anything to the situation that isn't there. But I see that perhaps mine is a unique situation and I will just merely have to accept and not try to change anything.

wildernesse

What do you have to accept? Being treated like someone's servant/pretty thing because you are a woman? Being treated like a danger to society for thinking for yourself?

Don't let people treat you badly.

--tibac

Badfish

There's some problems with this statement, 1) I am not here to preach to anyone, like I said I am a member of the notorious AN, and I know atheists, I am not here to convince anyone, if I was I would put together sermon like posts and cram them down your throat. 2) No, you don't know me well enough to make any such judgements against my knowledge, capability or character.

I find your instant offense to be both sad and amusing, do you think I was born yesterday? I know that I cannot provide the empiracal or ironclad evidence such hardcore atheists demand as proof.

Starboy

Ha! You think that is instant offence. You ain't from around here are ya fella?

Starboy

Sabine Grant

Salut blondegoddess... I think unfortunatly atheists are being stereotyped at times. As people unable to pursue noble causes such as what you quoted for women. Having done all of those women tasks, I have encountered several who were non theists. They were housewives first, mothers first, school volunteers first and focused on the right thing to do for their families. I think there is a negative image of atheists in general and among us, christians. We tend to stick to our own and do not necessarly seek to have relationships with non theists. However, for some of us women married to a non theist, those stereotypes do not apply.
Our social circle is wide and not limited to " our own kind". We mingle and relate to people who do present a noble character and often challenge by their actions the so called rigtheousness and kindness of us, christians.
It has been my personal experience that I have found more decency and " focus on the right thing to do"in some non theists than I have in my own kind. I do not think I am alone with similar experiences.
Stereotypes are always unfair because they do not aknowledge individuality.
The fact for example that some of us have defied the biblical command of " not being unequaly yoked" ought to say something about the level of appreciation we have for individuality rather than a legalistic and stereotyping perspective on the choice of a mate.
By the way " rough and gruff guys" are often sweet teddy bears....