Freethought & Rationalism Archive

daemon · 10-03-2002, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Vanderzyden: Have you asked yourself if your beliefs are justified?

What is a "justified belief" versus a normal, everyday belief? Since I see no reason to believe in Hell nor God, I feel my beliefs to be as justifiable as can be.

Quote:

Vanderzyden: Ask yourself: Upon thinking or acting wrongly, do I respond as I should when I recognize a sense of guilt?

Well, I don't even know what you mean by thinking wrongly and I rarely act wrongly. Given my options, I suppose I'd have to answer "sure."

[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: daemon ]

Jamie_L · 10-03-2002, 07:35 AM

But why don't I believe in God? If he's real, and he wants us all to believe, why don't I?

That's the question at the heart of this thread.

If god is real and omniscient, he knows me. He knows why I don't believe. He knows what it would take to make me believe. If God is real and omnipotent, he can bring to pass whatever is needed to make me see the light. And yet, I don't believe. Why?

Jamie

Vanderzyden · 10-03-2002, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
After several decades of observing the behavior of all the good Christians in the world I think I would prefer to go to hell. I suspect there would be a better class of people in hell.

Starboy

Hello Starboy,

It would seem that you prefer the company of the tyrants and murderers who reject everything but themselves. Is that what you are saying?

Your attention is drawn to those "good Christians" who don't seem to "walk the talk". But, surely you see this in other areas: people often don't measure up to their claims.

It would seem that this is nothing but a complaint. I wonder: to whom are you complaining?

Which do you think is a better investment of time: dwelling upon what's wrong with the world, or finding the truth?

Vanderzyden

K · 10-03-2002, 07:51 AM

Vanderzyden:

Are you saying that it's only the tyrants and murderers who go to Hell, Christian or otherwise. If that's the case, I and the vast majority of atheists have nothing to worry about. We'll be in Heaven with all the other good people. Somehow I suspect that you don't believe that's the case.

Vanderzyden · 10-03-2002, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daemon:

What is a "justified belief" versus a normal, everyday belief? Since I see no reason to believe in Hell nor God, I feel my beliefs to be as justifiable as can be.

A justified belief is one that is intellectually honest. To be justified in believing something, I must have examined the issues from "both sides" and performed sufficient inquiry. My motivation must be one of finding the truth, not affirming my comfortable presuppositions.

Quote:

Originally posted by daemon:
Well, I don't even know what you mean by thinking wrongly and I rarely act wrongly. Given my options, I suppose I'd have to answer "sure."

Here's another way to put the question:

Do you always think and act rightly?

Vanderzyden

monkey mind · 10-03-2002, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie_L:
But why don't I believe in God? If he's real, and he wants us all to believe, why don't I?

That's the question at the heart of this thread.

If god is real and omniscient, he knows me. He knows why I don't believe. He knows what it would take to make me believe. If God is real and omnipotent, he can bring to pass whatever is needed to make me see the light. And yet, I don't believe. Why?

Jamie

He must not really care what you believe one way or the other.

Vanderzyden · 10-03-2002, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
Vanderzyden:

Are you saying that it's only the tyrants and murderers who go to Hell, Christian or otherwise.

C'mon K, think for a moment:

What in my statement makes you think that?

Vanderzyden

Ab_Normal · 10-03-2002, 07:59 AM

Quote:

RJS:
...the fact all of you smart guys haven't figured out First Cause yet is a testament to the Almighty. He is still messing with you. Lay it down already.

Why would an omnimax creator mess with us, especially in such as way as to lead reasonble people to doubt its existence, thus damning them for all eternity? Sounds assholish to me.

Vanderzyden · 10-03-2002, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie_L:


If god is real and omniscient, he knows me. He knows why I don't believe. He knows what it would take to make me believe...
Jamie

I don't think that you are not considering everything:

Is it not possible that he has done all he can, and yet still some will reject him?

Vanderzyden

xeren · 10-03-2002, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:


Is it not possible that he has done all he can, and yet still some will reject him?

Vanderzyden

Oh, so god is not all-powerful now?

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10-03-2002, 07:35 AM	#52
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	But why don't I believe in God? If he's real, and he wants us all to believe, why don't I? That's the question at the heart of this thread. If god is real and omniscient, he knows me. He knows why I don't believe. He knows what it would take to make me believe. If God is real and omnipotent, he can bring to pass whatever is needed to make me see the light. And yet, I don't believe. Why? Jamie

10-03-2002, 07:51 AM	#54
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Vanderzyden: Are you saying that it's only the tyrants and murderers who go to Hell, Christian or otherwise. If that's the case, I and the vast majority of atheists have nothing to worry about. We'll be in Heaven with all the other good people. Somehow I suspect that you don't believe that's the case.

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