Eric H

Hello MrDarwin

If there is a God, then surely he would have a greater moral judgement then we do.

If we can see that senseless suffering is wrong then God must also see this.

It follows that if there is an all-powerful God, he must have had the power to stop suffering, sickness and death.

If there is a God and he has allowed these things to exist, then there must be a purpose great enough to create humanity, which takes into account all this suffering.

Nothing will make any sense in this world as we see it, unless there is a greatest purpose for it all to exist.

I know what you are saying about a parent looking after their child and protecting them from harm,

But if you can ignore all questions about suffering for the moment; can you see the greatest commandments as an ultimate purpose to create life as I described it in a previous post?

Peace

Eric

Infidelettante

I told myself to stay out of this. Leave it alone JT I said, it's not going to help your image here so just walk away. I stayed away five days. It wasn't easy I have you know. And I tried. I really tried. But I can't take it any more. It's all I think about. I've become obsessed. It fills my mind. The hours drag by. Seconds are interminable. Minutes are eternities. Is there no relief? When will it end I scream. Do it the voices say. Do it. You know you want to so go ahead. No! Stop Go away leave me Alone But you want to want to want to Yes Yes I want to Listen to them listen do it do it Now Do it do it do it do it OK OK you are trying to find purpose in a being who puts concepts like good and evil and eternal life in fruit for Christs sake.

There, I feel better already, thanks.

JT

Eric H

Hello all

Can anyone find a purpose to create life that is greater than the two greatest commandments?

Peace

Eric

Infidelettante

I've tried loving God and it didn't work. I'll try loving the guy next door but it wont be easy. I'll get back to on it.


JT

Amos

My problem is that I don't really know the first two commandments but I now see the drift of your post. If it is to Love the Lord YOUR God with all your heart, soul and body and to love your neighbor as yourself, you must first get to know the Lord your God before you can Love him.

Once you do know the Lord your God you just have to love yourself because that *is* the Lord your God and after that it is easy to love your neighbor as yourself. The Lord your God is masculine also for females.

the_cave

Hey--what about my idea?

Eric H

Supposing the greatest purpose to create the universe, is for God to love us as he loves himself, and to create us with the freedom to love in the same way.

How could God achieve this?

What is the greatest way to create children that can love unconditionally, and also explain good and evil?

If God had one supreme purpose in mind to create life, it follows that he would be resolute in the way he creates, so that he could then satisfy this one intention.
What would God have to sacrifice if his one uncompromising goal is to create life that can love?
What price would humanity have to pay if they were created to love?
Is humanity created in the greatest way that it is possible for an ultimate loving God to form us? Is the price worth paying?





LOVE AND FREEWILL.
Many people doubt the existence of God because of all the conflict and suffering that mankind has to endure; surly a loving God would not allow this to happen. If you think life is a mess, try and think of all the options open to God in the way that he could create life that can love.
We have a general knowledge about the workings of the universe; we have a general knowledge about the history of life. This puts us in a unique position it gives us the power of hindsight.
With your knowledge you now have the free choice to look for all the ways that life could be created.

Is there a greater way to create new life in a new universe that has the freedom to love?

For this exercise to have any meaning, there is a need to ask these questions from the creators point of view, so that you may experience the emotional conflicts of creation for yourself.

As a parent, or as God the parent, would I put off having children in case they may become evil? I know that any children that I have will be open to the same kind of temptations and feelings that are open to me, greed, lust, anger, pride envy, covetousness, sloth, and love. These are the temptations that we all can succumb to. As a parent, or as God the parent, with free will would I control my children and prevent them from making their own decisions, or would I teach them the difference between right and wrong and allow them to grow and make their own decisions? The choices open to any loving parent in creating life seem to be the same choices that were open to God. Can it be we have the same needs as God when it comes to creating? It is not enough to be a builder, gardener, and farmer; there is a greater need to be a parent. As a parent, or as God the parent, I should love all of my children, even if they turn to murder and by their actions they show no love in return.
As God the mother or God the father, how do I give out free will? As the creator of life I have the freedom to choose from good or evil, as the creator I do not misuse this great power. If I pass it on, I know this gift can be abused; what choices are open to me?
I could with hold free will and create the ideal society where no one would fall to the temptations of anger, lust, envy, gluttony, pride covetousness, sloth, and love. Everyone would work for the good of others, putting the needs of society before their own needs freely with no grumbles. This would be like the ant society; there is no free will involved. As God, would I be satisfied in creating creatures with a predictable behaviour and with no freedom to love like the ant society? Would mankind swap free will to live selflessly like ants, or can I create in a greater way?

I could create life on another planet the same as we have on Earth with total freedom to love, it is an awesome risk, I know that great things good and evil will happen if I do because I have already witnessed what happens on Earth.
We can be disturbed when we watch news programs on the television and see in graphic detail the horrors and extreme conditions of life. These are God’s children, just imagine what God the parent must go through being the creator this makes him responsible and he must also feel responsible for all the good and evil that his children commit on Earth.

What kind of an emotional burden does humanity place on a loving God? It seems that God must pay a very high price emotionally to create children with the freedom to love.

If I were God how could I live with myself when I look at life on Earth? How could I put things right? Should I intervene and stop evil happening? Do I just intervene in extreme cases like murder, rape, child abuse, and violence? What about the murder of a drugs dealer, or injustice, theft and fraud? Where do I draw the line on when I should intervene?
If I know evil is about to happen, how do I prevent it happening? Do I have that person executed? Do I cause events to happen so evil is prevented? Do I have them locked up before the event? Do I impose my thoughts on a person’s mind so they will do things my way?
To do any of these things I am ‘God the Dictator’ a controlling God because I become judge, jury, and executioner, probably thousands of times every day. Intervention takes away free will because I am going to decide what I will allow you and everyone else to do.

If I had the power of creation to create a completely new structure of life on another planet would I have the emotional courage to create children in my own image and give them total freedom to love? Or would I create a lower form of life and only give them a conditional freedom; that is you can only do the things that I allow you to do.

If God has total freedom himself then I feel that for God to create in an ultimate way he must create real children in his own image and love them as he loves himself unconditionally. Therefore he could not control them in any way by with holding or restricting freedom.

To have freedom in this way seems the greatest way that a loving God could create life and this is the model for life that we can perceive existing on Earth today. To create life that can love is a risk, because this freedom also gives us the choice to be a saint or a serial killer or anything else

Is our life on Earth designed to teach us how to make choices between good and evil? Was life on Earth designed to be a fragile and limited existence to minimize the power but not the choices that we have to choose between good and evil? Mankind has used stone, iron and nuclear tools for both good and evil purposes.

If all of humanity was born immortal and if we had the ability to gain supreme knowledge we can imagine for ourselves the chaos that would follow because we would still have the freedom to choose between good and evil.

Sadly to create life with total freedom will mean that the innocent will suffer. In terms of mans inhumanity to man it can seem that human suffering is to high a price to pay for the freedom to love. A loving all-powerful God must have known the risks involved to create life with the freedom to love. There has to be more to life. The innocent must not suffer in vain.

LOVE GOD
If we are created in God’s image and we have the freedom to love, then mankind was created to act in accordance with this ultimate purpose. But how can it make sense for God to say that the greatest quality we can have is to love God, when God can only exist in our imagination. Can we only love an imaginary God?
Would God the creator be content to create life that could only live a few years, would he be content if he never had the chance to come into contact with his children on equal terms. If God went to all the trouble of designing and creating a vast universe for the purpose of creating children in his own image, he must also have a need to be with his children on equal terms.

If God has the capacity to create life from nothing then he must also have the ability to resurrect life after death. If we choose to show our love for God and our neighbours in this life, we can then meet God face to face in a greater life after death, loving God can then become a reality. The greatest commandment is now making more sense.
Life after death with God must be God’s final purpose for humanity.

CHRIST.
How can God teach humanity his ultimate purpose without imposing his will on us by force?
What role did Christ have in the creation of the universe?
Could it be that Christ said to God the Father, if humanity strays to far from the truth, I will take human form and be a role model?
Was Christ’s destiny, his life, and death planned before the creation of the universe? Was his destiny decided for him at the time of the prophecies, which were written in the Old Testament? Or was his destiny decided for him on the day he took human form?
Was this contingency plan of Christ dying, put in place before creation began, because God knew the risks involved in creating life with the freedom to love?
Did God know that if humanity were to be created with the freedom to love, that many of his children would be innocent victims?
Did Christ know in advance the price that he would have to pay if humanity were to be created? Did he know that he would also have to be an innocent victim?
With our knowledge and hindsight could there have been any other options open to God that could have had a greater impact on humanity?

We can look at the choices available to create life in an open way, we can see the risks involved, we know the price that would have to be paid by humanity, Christ, and God.

God’s final purpose for humanity must outweigh all the suffering, sacrifices and hardships that humanity has to endure while we spend our time on Earth, otherwise he cannot be a loving God.

Was Christ’s mission to inform us of God’s purpose for the creation of the universe?

A journey begins to try and understand the power of the greatest commandments, are they the ultimate motivating force that would compel God to create the universe and life?

sorry about the sermon.

Peace

Eric