Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 07-21-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

No ones ascended into heaven,jesus said so.

No, it says no one but the Son of man ascended into Heaven. Notice the but?

unregistered_user_1 · 07-21-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
No, it says no one but the Son of man ascended into Heaven. Notice the but?

Notice the story about Elijah?

2 Kings 2:11

Quote:

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariout of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

So it looks like the bible in the NT was wrong, after all:

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

No ones ascended into heaven,jesus said so.

Of course, people nowadays know that's patent BS, becuase of well, all of OUTER SPACE! The guy would be dead well before getting to heaven, even if they used "warp speed" or something, but anyway, back then the people thought heaven was a LOT closer to the earth, as in "in the sky" itself, so they could swallow that stuff better.

Doctor X · 07-21-2003, 04:47 PM

Unregistered:

You make the common UNBELIEVER [!--Ed.] mistake to fail to recognize that if Big Daddy can make Magic Bears that can maul and/or each a bunch of children in such a way they are not really injured, he can certainly protect Elijah from the dangers of space. . . .

--J. "And I Have a Bridge you Might Like to Buy" D.

Calzaer · 07-21-2003, 06:19 PM

If anyone ascended bodily to Heaven, that means Heaven must be a real, physical place. It therefore indicates that we should be able to FIND Heaven without having to die first. Has the Hubble taken pictures of Heaven yet? I want to load up a spaceship full of Humvees (better than chariots of iron!) and kick the crap out of God.

Magus55 · 07-21-2003, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calzaer
If anyone ascended bodily to Heaven, that means Heaven must be a real, physical place. It therefore indicates that we should be able to FIND Heaven without having to die first. Has the Hubble taken pictures of Heaven yet? I want to load up a spaceship full of Humvees (better than chariots of iron!) and kick the crap out of God.

How do you figure? What makes you assume Heaven is in this universe? How do you know its not outside the universe? And since when can hubble see everything in existence?

Calzaer · 07-21-2003, 07:46 PM

If someone is able to physically rise to heaven, that makes the existence of heaven a falsifiable premise. I think the fact we've seen much further than where the "firmament" that separated heaven and earth allegedly existed (before the flood, anyway), and we haven't found heaven. How far away is it, Magus?

GakuseiDon · 07-21-2003, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spaz
Christ dude, you're defending this? HOW!? It specifically says little children, not a gang of teens (when you said that, btw, it reminded me of west side story, but then they started snapping and dancing and shit and it wasn't threatening at all ). And if Elisha's life was really threatened couldn't YHWH have given him super speed to run away or somethin? I think that woulda be a lot more interesting, and cooler too, but YHWH is one blood-thirsty bastard. But c'mon, 2 bears tear the crap out of 42 little children and that's a good thing? Just give up and say "God works in mysterious ways" or something like that, he must've had his reasons right?

Why is it that when you point out someone's errors in their interpretation towards an event in the Bible that you are automatically "defending" the event?

I'm not a literalist nor an inerrantist, so don't care one way or the other, but it amuses me to see how spin to make something sound more dreadful is taken uncritically, while spin the other way is pounced on.

I think my point is proven.

Spaz · 07-21-2003, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GakuseiDon
Why is it that when you point out someone's errors in their interpretation towards an event in the Bible that you are automatically "defending" the event?

Because they weren't the ones that erred. The ones that cited the event simply went by what it said and you made up stuff to try to make it sound like there could possibly be any good reason to have bears attack 42 little children.

Quote:

I'm not a literalist nor an inerrantist, so don't care one way or the other, but it amuses me to see how spin to make something sound more dreadful is taken uncritically, while spin the other way is pounced on.

I think my point is proven.

There was no spin, you were the one that put a spin on it. Everybody simply went by what the book actually said without extrapolating some different event. You proved their point that some people will make shit up to make things in the bible sound better than the way they are written.

Doctor X · 07-21-2003, 08:54 PM

If his point was to prove that an atrocity occured he has, indeed, succeeded.

--J.D.

xsquid · 07-21-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
How do you figure? What makes you assume Heaven is in this universe? How do you know its not outside the universe? And since when can hubble see everything in existence?

Uh, Magus:
Since by definition "the universe' includes everything there is, it follows that there can be no such thing as "outside the universe". If you believe that, then I must ask you: what's outside what's outside the universe? And how can anything that's not of this universe (and not subject to this universe's laws) affect anything within this universe?

Just acknowledge the alleged fact: Elijah went to Heaven without dying, something even Jesus couldn't do. If we could learn how he did it, we could mount a Heaven Expeditionary Force
TM and see if those Humvees really work...

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07-21-2003, 04:47 PM	#43
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Unregistered: You make the common UNBELIEVER [!--Ed.] mistake to fail to recognize that if Big Daddy can make Magic Bears that can maul and/or each a bunch of children in such a way they are not really injured, he can certainly protect Elijah from the dangers of space. . . . --J. "And I Have a Bridge you Might Like to Buy" D.

07-21-2003, 06:19 PM	#44
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	If anyone ascended bodily to Heaven, that means Heaven must be a real, physical place. It therefore indicates that we should be able to FIND Heaven without having to die first. Has the Hubble taken pictures of Heaven yet? I want to load up a spaceship full of Humvees (better than chariots of iron!) and kick the crap out of God.

07-21-2003, 07:46 PM	#46
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	If someone is able to physically rise to heaven, that makes the existence of heaven a falsifiable premise. I think the fact we've seen much further than where the "firmament" that separated heaven and earth allegedly existed (before the flood, anyway), and we haven't found heaven. How far away is it, Magus?

07-21-2003, 08:54 PM	#49
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	If his point was to prove that an atrocity occured he has, indeed, succeeded. --J.D.

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