BadBadBad

Radorth,

I assume, based upon what you've said, that you don't believe an adult who is truly ignorant and unexposed to even the concept of God and Jesus will go to Hell. I guess I'm wondering what you think the break point is between true ignorance and knowledge sufficient to be held accountable. I know you believe God is the judge of that, but what is your opinion? For example, are muslims going to hell? Surely an adult muslim knows about the concept of christianity, Jesus, and the christian God, but they reject it of their own Free Will. Do you believe the truly ignorant go to heaven, and what is your concept of the breakpoint for accountability?

BadBadBad

Only 10% of the world is going to hell Radorth? That doesn't seem so bad. They probably really deserve it.

So why all the fuss. If that's the case, aren't the missionaries, churches, and the christians doing everyone a big disservice? I think, based upon your beliefs, that we should re-write Pascal's wager. I'm placing my bet on ignorant bliss. Rather than teach the Gospel to my kids, I'm going to shield them from it. I guess my mom, my wife, and all the other whacky christians I've met in my life have blown it for me by exposing me to God's word in such an idiotic way that I can't possibly believe it. What a bummer! I've always thought I'd have more company in Hell!

The Nose

Millions of humans died before the Gospel was ever spoken or written. For me to accept your first claim, you have to first convince me there's an afterlife.

In your second claim, you should have said "actions" instead of "rules". Why would I make a rule--especially one with a harsh penalty--that required belief in something I don't believe? I'm not a masochist. If there is such a rule, it's not my rule.

If the apostle Andrew watched God's son perform miracles and all I got was a 1600 year old book and a human witness spouting hand-me-down hearsay then I say that's unfair. If we are subject to the same rule then we should be given the same (or at least equivalent) evidence.

The Nose

The Nose

Good points. Mind if I borrow the first one and go off on a tangent?

If you died and met Jesus in Heaven with abundant evidence of his Godhood literally laying around, you'd have to be extremely willful to disbelieve.

But some people claim Jesus preached to the dead in Hell. If he did, I wonder if he went in as the hero who was about to conquer death or as just another dead carpenter. I wonder what percentage of souls he was able to save there. On Earth he made a humble appearance and didn't preach long. He slipped under the radar of those who were expecting a messiah to restore Israel to her former glory and beyond. I daresay he converted less than a fraction of one percent of the people who were alive at the time. He might have converted hundreds of thousands if he had gone in and miraculously kicked the Romans all the way back to Europe. But, for whatever reason, he chose a subtle approach on Earth. It makes me think, that he might have taken a subtle approach in Hell also. We know he could only preach for three days because he had to go back to Earth for Easter ; ) Of course he could have gone back to Hell later for a revival (unless he got busy in North America as some folks would have us believe). It seems to me that Jesus didn't want to save everybody or even most everybody. If he had, he would have started earlier, stayed longer, and come up with a more convincing approach. Granted, he started a movement and his followers converted more followers until eventually whole countries were Christian. But that took hundreds of years. If he had tried harder and converted 99% of the peopl on earth, they could have converted many most of their descendents and Jesus could have saved himself some time in Hell.

Radorth

This is a reasonable request, and why I think those who are truly "willing to do his will" and not just their own, will get a second chance. Still being judged by our own rules, as I pointed out earlier, is just and fair. So if some do go to hell via such judgement, I won't call God unfair.

Well they will believe, but will they agree to do God's will? Some here have said they won't, and I believe them.

Rad

Radorth

Yeah i know. "If I saw a real miracle, I would believe." Well it seems the Israelites believed, and they still rebelled. The couldn't even figure out what was good for them. "Belief" includes more than just agreeing God is real and powerful. Having "faith" includes repentance, a change of heart, and the willingness to serve God and one another. The "Gospel of the kingdom" has as it's goal a kingdom full of meek and willing servants who are free of sin.

A "better approach" would be what? And if he "stayed longer," he could not have saved anybody because even the OT saints could not go to heaven before the atonement was complete.

Rad

Magus55

Thats a lame excuse unless you were born in a jungle and never saw modern civilization. Tons of people grew up with no religious upbringing and still found Jesus. I doubt there are many people in the civilized world who have never heard of Jesus Christ. And if there are, they will be judged accordingly. God isn't gonna hold someone who has absolutely never heard of the Gospel, and sought out a higher meaning to life, accountable for something they had no clue about.

And you have one life to accept or reject Jesus. Do not waste time questioning God and debating over the issue of His existence, since you never know how long you have. How is that unfair? Atheists waste their time contemplating and denying the existence of God, ignoring the time you do have to receive salvation, and you complain that people don't have enough time?You have plenty of time. Only takes a minute to become saved. Rejecting and denying God's existence is just more important to some people than becoming saved.

Demigawd

You sound like a telemarketter.

And that's the nature of evangelicals and salesmen: create in the audience a sense of absense, worry, deficiency, whatever. Then offer the snake oil that will rid the problem.

"So simple! Only takes a moment of your time! Act now while the offer lasts! We beat the competition! Our product is number one!"

Bree

If it only takes a "minute" then you obviously believe that the only thing necessary to get into Heaven is to believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Am I correct?

OpenSeeker

to respond to the original question with xian view:
I am not sure that all receive equal opportunity. There's no denying we are given physical evidence in varying degrees,
but its possible that God compensates for those who receive less physical evidence by speaking to them spiritually.

I don't see biblical justification for God giving people a chance after death to choose Him, but that doesn't bother me at all. By the time one who opposes God dies, i dont think it is any longer a question of evidence, but of the heart. After leading a life in total rebellion, a person given massive evidence of God would still refuse Him, and maybe even on justifiable grounds.