Radorth

Re: Ipetrich

It must have been you who said it as you are responding.

My apologies to Rick.

Sorry, we haven't had any major strikes for 65,000,000 years. Human stubbornness and stupidity is so far ahead of asteroids, the next strike will have to kill 80,000,000 people to beat it.

I can't believe you're arguing this.

Rad

Radorth

Re: Scombrid

And? What? A Big Bang somehow excludes God as creator?

Not that you know what my doctrine is. I don't have one concerning the exact origins or the universe, since we are well short of evidence of how that came to be.

No, if I can show your argument depends on a blanket and simplistic assumption, I'll win the logic argument at worst. And what is the difference to you, or the other skeptics here, as long as we are talking about a God who COULD do anything, but chooses not to?

Are the skeptic's arguments here so weak, they cannot work for a God who is merely good, just, longsuffering and powerful? I'm afraid they are weak, because they don't work for any God except the one you define, and whose attributes, actions and "shoulds" you alone can dictate and fault.

I'm merely making the point, yet unrefuted, that it doesn't even matter whether God is "omnimax" as long as he is good and powerful enough to send us to hell. The number of tornado deaths will suddenly seem unimportant when that happens, don't you know.

And I never said he could not stop bad weather either. Jesus did. What I said was, he won't do it if it makes no difference in people's character. As I pointed out, none of the miracles God worked for the Israelites did them any real spiritual good. He seems to have worked them strictly to get them across the desert, or to keep them from being crushed by superior forces. They have to have some specific purpose, although God may do them to distinguish one of his authorities, as I think LWF pointed out.

It's no good to just believe God exists if you are not fundamentally changed in your heat. That is not the faith God needs. That is why I asked how a miracle would change you. What good would it do God, exactly, to works a miracle for you? How would it advance his purpose? I dare say very few of the skeptics here would choose to obey God if he did work a miracle. They'd simply ask for verification he was the Biblical God, and then start whining about all his other faults.

Right? Is that a fair assessment or not?

Rad

Llyricist

There is a reason I made the advanced alien joke before.

Because once you give up any of the "omni"'s you cannot lay claim to your god being the supreme being. This is the reason you are close to unique in even using this argument Radorth. If your god ISN'T ALL powerful, and ALL good it leaves room for something better "above" it.

Furthermore, there is no longer ANYTHING to distinguish it from the advanced alien I mentioned before, very possibly a very sick and demented scientist (especially if the OT is true). So what exactly makes it WORTHY of worship and obedience other than physical blackmail?

Dr Rick

Thank-you; apology accepted, and I apologize for calling you a 'hypocritical liar'

Rick

Radorth

In whose opinion? Yours?

I never said he wasn't all powerful anyway. I'm saying it doesn't matter as much as how good he is, as long as he has certain minimal powers. I've also given perfectly legitimate reasons why he might not choose to excercise his power until "for the sake of the elect who cry day and night" near or during Armageddon, he manifests all of his power. And I might say some atheists will damn sure wish he had waited another thousand years.

Try to grasp this. It's very simple. As long as we know him to be just, loving, longsuffering and merciful in his dealings with us personally, and powerful enough to create and destroy, than almost any anti-God argument is just hot air, however "logical."

For this reason, you cannot answer the practical questions I have posed, because you cannot postulate a better model, in those terms, than we already know.

Now if you want to argue that you did everything he asked, and he ignored you, I can't very well disprove that because I have no way of proving or disproving your assertions. But then I've only seen one "atheist" who claimed to have done all that one could possibly do to find God. The rest fell short, under questioning.

"I did everything I tell ya!!! And there ain't no God!" Real humble stuff like that.

Rad

Llyricist

LMAO


Cough


GASP


ummm excuse me???
we know him to be JUST???????
we know him to be loving???????
when the helllll did he suffer????
when the hell was he merciful???

YOUR arguments are HOT AIR Radorth, stop projecting your own failures for once and examine carefully your beliefs.

Llyricist

By the way, you didn't seem to notice I said all powerful AND all good (of course, this is no surprise with your record at comprehension)

wade-w

The POE is an argument against an omnimax god. If you posit a god that is not omnipotent and omnibenevolent, then the POE fails. So if Radorth's god is not omnimax, and it looks like he is saying exactly that, the POE is not going to refute his position.

Radorth

No I'm saying you don't get to define what "omnimax" is, or what it implies, and then claim God doesn't measure up. It's a strawman.

Of course the only people who will buy the skeptic's arguments here have bought their uncritical definition.

Omnimax, smomnimax.

Rad

scombrid

Please remember your own previous statements when responding.

You previously said What if he searched the entire universe, and earth was the most inhabitable? What would you guys tell him? . That implied that god was not necessarily the creator of the universe or Earth. That conflicts with all flavors of Judeo-Christian tradition with which I'm familiar, hence my terse response ala Genesis.


You are a Christian of some description. By whatever process YEC, OEC, Theistic evolution, ID, or whatever, every Christian I've met would assert that their god created everything. He didn't just stumble across Earth and say "Good enough for government work."


Omnieverything is not our simplistic assumption, it is Christianity's. Your declaring god to be less than perfect diverges from the concept of god which creates the POE; a concept that we did not create for this argument but that was taught to most of us growing up in the church. If god is not omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent then he is no more to us than we are to a pet dog. He might be good or he might be bad, all you assert is that he's more powerful than we. Based on that, obedience is compeled mainly by fear.