Magus55

Um wrong, but thanks for twisting my words. I said free will didn't exist without the tree. The tree existed before Adam and Eve were ever created. When God said you can have everything in the garden, except this one tree - Adam and Eve gained Free will because there was now something in the Garden that they could choose whether to obey God and not eat from it, or disobey.

Magus55

Who ever said God wrote the Bible? The Bible isn't written by God, it was inspired by Him. Humans physically wrote the words down, while being guided by God. And the original Hebrew/Greek Bible is perfect. And the translations are as perfect as any copy gets.

And please show me the verses that 100% prove the earth is flat. The one about it being a circle does not prove its flat.

mike_decock

That wasn't my intention, Magus.

But there was still no way for them to know whether or not obedience was Good or Evil until they ate from the tree. There's still no way they could be held morally accountable for their ignorance.

-Mike...

Sci_Fidelity

Why you guys waste time arguing with people who actually believe these things happened is beyond me. But, that's not saying all that much.

Fred

I agree with Mike. One needs a common frame of reference in order to understand the difference between good and evil. How then were they responsible for what they did not know ?
It seems to me that since God created Human beings, it is he who was responsible for the design and so should be held responsible for any design flaws. We would certainly not listen to a car manufacturer who said " I was aware my design was faulty and dangerous, I chose not to tell anybody so I could better determine the driving ability of our custommers." In the real world there would be a recall and the design problem would be fixed.
Humans have a desire to fix what is broken and instill order into chaos. Quite opposite to God

Fred

I tend to think of it in terms of the way people would discuss Hamlet. I think of the Bible as if it's a play.

CX

Seems to me this god of yours could have saved a whole lot of trouble and confusion if he HAD written it down himself and supernaturally protected it from destruction or corruption for all time. I mean we are talking about God's message to all mankind for salvation of their immortal souls, yes? God was pretty careless.

But since we don't have the original texts, this statement is not of much value. How would we know if it's true or not? Because you say so? We could apply that standard to any religious text.

Which translation? Of which underlying text? If we don't have the originals what differences does it make how close various translations are to their underlying texts?

Magus55

Thats not true. If you tell a baby no when they do something, do they understand the concept of good and evil just because you said no? Of course not - they know not to do it because you said not to, not because its evil. Adam and Eve knew that God said do not eat from the tree. They aren't required to know good and evil to understand what no means.

Magus55

First of all, you can't compare God to a car manufacturer so its faulty analogy right off the bat. Secondly, Cars aren't living and can't make their own choices of whether to become broken or not. If you must use that analogy - the Car manufacturer would have made an award winning, perfect car - and the car decided to break down on its own, despite the car manufacturer warning the car of the consequences of such a choice.

And there will be a recall. The cars that made the choice to no longer be bad, despite having broken parts - will be made perfect again in the future. The corrupt cars, that can't be fixed go to the scrap heep.
And no, not all humans have a desire to bring about order. If they did, the world wouldn't be getting progressively more violent and sick. God, on the other hand - lets us take responsibility for our own actions instead of being a magic genie and a baby sitter, fixing every problem we bring about. You gotta learn on your own.

Demigawd

In other words, we'll make God "better, stronger, faster" than anything we can concretely comprehend.

How's being a Messianic Jew working for you, Magus55? I imagine being an elite amongst the elite makes you feel pretty darn special, doesn't it?