Rousseau_CHN

someone in this post wrote that Korea should do a "Philippines"

You know like kick out the American Base...sure that's easy to say, but can they, the Koreans, afford to lose all the progress they are enjoyng now.

The Philippines is a great country. This nation can afford to be free eventhough it is poor.

The rest of Asia are deciding between prosperity and democracy. The Philippines sees no difference. prosperity and democracy works hand in hand.

You just watch and see...this country will surprise everybody.

sullster

This may be the subject of another future thread but the relationship of Japan to this crisis in Korea intrigues me.

What will Japan do if they are attacked by NK missiles? The obvious answer is that they will wait for Uncle Sam to retaliate. Ever since August 1945, the US and all of Asia has enjoyed a peace-loving Japan, yet such a scenario could change things.

If Japan quickly rearmed and made their own nukes,(we know they are smart enough to make thousands- tomorrow afternoon say), all of Asia would be in an uproar. The memories of WW2 are still around. I see an enormous arms race breaking out, not to mention pre-emptive strikes.

There are some very scary possibilities for Asia in the future. A right-wing coup in Japan? How about that? Anything else?

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by sullster
This may be the subject of another future thread but the relationship of Japan to this crisis in Korea intrigues me.

What will Japan do if they are attacked by NK missiles? The obvious answer is that they will wait for Uncle Sam to retaliate. Ever since August 1945, the US and all of Asia has enjoyed a peace-loving Japan, yet such a scenario could change things.

Depends on what the warheads are. If they are special I doubt NK will be around long enough to be an issue.

If Japan quickly rearmed and made their own nukes,(we know they are smart enough to make thousands- tomorrow afternoon say), all of Asia would be in an uproar.

It would be settled long before that. Sure they have the technical expertise and the engineering. They don't have the actual plans nor the stocks of weapons-grade material. Both of those take time to produce even for a modern society.

Direct Current

Let's just say the Japanese are VERY sensitive about missiles landing in Japan. Japan has not been completely unaware of their situation military-wise in the region. It may be time to remember that Japan may need to re-arm (in a serious way) to help us (and themselves) out. Japan is my choice over China. Even so, I don't see China as a renegade nation. That has changed in the past 25 years. I would agree with those who think China perceives N. Korea as their unhappy problem. If NK went off the deep end and moved into SK, I don't think China would say much when the US invaded. I think we should be using back door channels to get the Chinese OK on pre-emptive strikes. The JDF air force could help in any pre-emptive strikes. What a nice logistical base Japan would make in a N. Korean invasion.

Seeker196

"If you don't understand or don't want to think about what I am saying"

How about 'I understand what you are saying, I just think it is an incorrect view'?

I have formed an opinion, I'm giving it, I'm interested in but do not currently agree with yours. If you don't believe it's a valid opinion, well what can I say?
Perhaps in the future I will, but right now this is what I believe.

2 years for the shakedown? I guess I was unlucky. Yes, my first hagwon I made the mistake of actually trusting a word the recruiter said and ended up with a 'we'll take your passport and you'll never work in korea again' but now I've found a much better place. They pay me on time, and 2.1 million with no mystery deductions. The 'wang ja neem' (don't know the correct romanization) speaks passable English. The hours still change, but they are reasonable, I understand the Korea view of 'working hours' and 'overtime' (which is set up to be unobtainable by us).

In six months:
-My female friend has been assaulted by two drunk koreans in broad daylight. She broke a nose.
-She's had her ass grabbed in elevators by men and women
-I was reprimanded like a child in front of everyone for going out of my class for 10 seconds to get a whiteboard marker, something we all did and still do, because the boss felt like it.
-We have been LITERALLY told to sit at the back of the bus for Korean men.
-Just today, a more qualified, olded, more experienced teacher of East Indian descent was turned away at an interview at a time when we really need more teachers. The reason? The boss quite bluntly said it was because he wasn't white.
-As a young, and youngish looking, unmarried white man I have been aggresively gay prospositioned in the 'unmistakeable way' of direct bodily grabbing/stroking by aggressive/possessive Korean men, drunk on notions of their masculinity.
-We deal with anti-American abuse all the time, there was a SOFA protest at E-Mart yesterday. Yes, even fuckin E-Mart, they're everywhere. I got the Canada patch everywhere, but Wade is from Maryland so we had to have the 'I Hate Bushie Too' talk about a hundred times in broken Konglish.
-I've learned not to try to moonlight, since they really do use unsavoury characters to catch you, and pressure you. There was a guy who kept offering my 200 000 W a month for 1/2 hour a week, a deal you know is a setup. There are lots of other teachers who have been here longer than me.
-I've eaten live squid, soup with ice, and I know where you can find ge-bap.
-Every single business establishment in Korea seems to have an 'anma' component somewhere out back....even the goddamned noraebang offers 'special massage'.
-I've had 4 kids draw cartoon 9/11s as a joke and tell me that they hate America. I try to tell them that real people died and 9/11 was evil, that it's OK to hate America as long as you don't hate Americans, and Wade-sun sang neem is an American, he even lived in New York during that day!
-I do hit my kids. I was hesitant about it at first, but the boss says it's OK. The unruly Korean boy only respects immediate physical correction or they'll walk all over you.
-Korean scheme and backstab as a way of life sometimes it seems, especially the women.
-If you want to be happy, never, ever ever challenge someone who thinks they are your superior. ESPECIALLY the boss. One girl didn't get it, NEVER CHALLENGE THE BOSS directly over anything, especially if it's obvious those was wrong or lazy or stupid, because they will just keep escalating and they are prepared to go a lot farther, even to petty passport and return ticket losing and stuff.
-Don't let Korean men see you alone with a young Korean woman. It provokes their sensibilities. They regard the women as theirs and you are offending them.
-Girls being turned down for being too fat, too ugly,etc.
-Curtis, a black american from Atlanta, in a city where there is a 'minstrel/blackface' bar. He doesn't go out much anymore. The Koreans are very racist sometimes.

WORST: Crocodile skinned 10 year vet turned headhunter blatantly telling unsuspecting applicants over the phone every lie in the book about a hagwon she knew well was correct.

There is quite a varied crew here of louts and layabouts from all ages and walks, but we've all agreed on one thing: It is better here, and despite its negatives the Korean culture is better. Yes, it may be 'hypocrisy' from your perspective but I call it civilized.

Here's my reasons:
1. I feel safer walking the narrow alleys of my drunk and fast car combo neighbourhood at 3 am than I do in TO at anytime of day.
2. The service. I don't care what they say when they think I don't know what 'yamaneem' means, but to my face they are unfailingly polite and go out of their way,
3. THE EFFICIENCY! Koreans don't waste time on frivolities or chit-chat, they are always going somewhere in a hurry. Even the steps are less lazy than Westen steps. The HS kids and young men are in good shape and well disciplined. I NEVER have back talk in this group because of excellent levels of discipline at home and school. THey memorize rapidly. If they don't, a note home to the parents will rapidly solve any discipline or non-comliance problem. Even my most rowdy by has become totally well behaved and even quiet in class! I contrast this with the NA classroom of my youth....the bong factories....the yelling....the chaos....the disrespect.
4. What I call the 'Guides'. Total strangers who go completely out of their way to help a foreigner. We had a guy who changed busses and walked to help us find the consulate in Incheon, and he was just some guy who overheard us talking. This happens ALL THE TIME, it hasn't stopped. Yes, there are the odd American style a-holes but they stick out like sore thumbs.

Christianity in Korea is fucked up, I'll admit. I get more young men in suits wanting to tell me about their imaginary friend then in Canada. There are a lot of wierd cults, mudang scams, etc.

They are so sincere and naive about Christianity it's touching sometimes. I have a student who believes: Tangun founded Korea in 2333 BC, the various stories about Buddha's life, and is an evangelical. He really simply has not thought about any possible contradictions. Buddhist, Animist, and fierce Protestant nonsense exist in degrees in almost all my students.

I heard one our Korean kindergarten teachers, a Prod supposedly, conflating the Garden of Eden with the story of the Tiger and the Bear (korean first man myth).

BTW; I can peg Te-Jin from across the room right between the eyes with a whiteboard marker when he's talking. He's a much better student now, always finishes his homework.

microcosm

It is true that the Japanese apologies are not accepted as sincere expressions of guilt or regret -for various reasons some of them genuine- but it is not true that the Japanese never apologized.
There is no doubt however that the difference in opinion over how the Japanese deal with their war past continues to have incredible importance around the world and particularly in Asia. For those not familiar with the subject it might indeed be a good idea to start a separate thread but for now I think these links may demonstrate that the issue is a little more nuanced than the previous posts in this thread indicate.

This is a link to a web page at the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs titled "Topics Related to Postwar Issues".
Here is a link to a statement at the MOFA site about the start and allocation of a budget for a clean up program related to chemicals and munitions left by the Japanese Imperial Army in China.
The Pyongyang Declaration contains the latest Japanese apology.
Quote:
"The Japanese side regards, in a spirit of humility, the facts of history that Japan caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of Korea through its colonial rule in the past, and expressed deep remorse and heartfelt apology."

(Link and quote added to stay on topic)

Vorkosigan

Seeker, this reads like a composite document. Is the middle of it yours, or are you putting up comments from someone else?

Vorkosigan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Seeker196
"but now I've found a much better place. They pay me on time, and 2.1 million with no mystery deductions. The 'wang ja neem' (don't know the correct romanization) speaks passable English. The hours still change, but they are reasonable, I understand the Korea view of 'working hours' and 'overtime' (which is set up to be unobtainable by us).

Things are better here paywise, but we have our mystery deductions too.

Is the part below yours?

In six months:
-My female friend has been assaulted by two drunk koreans in broad daylight. She broke a nose.
-She's had her ass grabbed in elevators by men and women......


There is quite a varied crew here of louts and layabouts from all ages and walks, but we've all agreed on one thing: It is better here, and despite its negatives the Korean culture is better. Yes, it may be 'hypocrisy' from your perspective but I call it civilized.[/b]

Give yourself time....

Seeker196

LOL, is your diagnosis 'Stockholm Syndrome' then ?

Secular Pinoy

It's been over twelve years since we kicked the US bases, and I'm still waiting for the surprise. That has led me to a more pessimistic outlook for the Philippines.

And Vork had this to say...Sadly, that is true when I was younger. I studied in a not-too-decent Grade School in Quezon City, Philippines and we had a few teachers who delight in twisting the ears of naughty kids. I remember my first grade music teacher, who uses a wooden ruler to hit "slow learning" tykes on their palms. I had been in the receiving end of such disciplinary actions.

Though I must add that this is the exception rather than the norm.