Freethought & Rationalism Archive

YHWH666 · 04-04-2003, 07:40 PM

PATRIOTISM, n. 1) The inability to distinguish between the government and one's "country"; 2) A highly praiseworthy virtue characterized by the desire to dominate and kill; 3) A feeling of exultation experienced when contemplating heaps of charred "enemy" corpses; 4) The first, last, and perennial refuge of scoundrels.
PATRIOT, n. A dangerous tool of the powers that be. A herd member who compensates for lack of self-respect by identifying with an abstraction. An enemy of individual freedom. A fancier of the rich, satisfying flavor of boot leather.
-- from The American Heretic's Dictionary edited by Chaz Bufe

Patriotism is an absurd, intellectually bankrupt concept. There is not a single valid reason why one should �love their country� or be loyal to it in any way. The lives of Americans are worth no more than anyone else. Every time I hear someone say �we should just nuke the whole middle east� or see another street with flags hanging from every house I feel like a German Jew just as Hitler was coming into power. Lately I�ve been seriously considering moving to Canada. I hear the patriotism isn't so prevelent up there.

yaktldg · 04-04-2003, 08:05 PM

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!" --Einstein

Jolimont · 04-04-2003, 08:24 PM

Patriotism is a pretty name for nationalism, but it's no different, especially when it's expected of you.

Bulgie · 04-04-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jolimont
Patriotism is a pretty name for nationalism, but it's no different, especially when it's expected of you.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, in retrospect, I think that that was what most bothered me about the immediate post 9-11 events. I wasn't understanding this sudden "patriotism" movement--seems to make a lot more sense if you call it a "nationalism" movement.

ProNihil · 04-04-2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YHWH666

Patriotism is an absurd, intellectually bankrupt concept. There is not a single valid reason why one should �love their country� or be loyal to it in any way.

For such a strong opinion, perhaps you should attempt a move to N. Korea. Perhaps Afghanistan. Oh, wait, never mind, in N. Korea you wouldn't be able to enjoy posting on IIDB, and in Afghanistan, you probably could, that is, if you had the massive amount of money and a way to keep it coming in that those poor people do not.

There is a bunch of shit wrong with every country, but why choose to not be appreciative of the good things this country provides you. I really don't understand that.

Patriotism- (ProNihil Definition) The act of being prideful and thankful of the country one lives in, because it affords them the freedoms that so many others do not, as well as the inherent right to complain about what one thinks is wrong about it. Oh, and the right and power to change it through popular vote and opinion.

Tani · 04-04-2003, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jolimont
Patriotism is a pretty name for nationalism, but it's no different, especially when it's expected of you.

but don't forget nationalism is only a pretty name for xenophobia.

if people can only just drop down the whole "love" affair with patriotism and take a cold hard look at what makes a nation.

Nataraja · 04-04-2003, 10:35 PM

Xenophobes, heh. No wonder these "patriots" act like living in this country is an unending Klan rally.

excreationist · 04-04-2003, 10:49 PM

ProNihil:
On the other hand the term "Patriotism" can be used to get people to accept *less* personal freedoms for themselves - in exchange for a promised increase in security.

e.g. (Patriot Act/Patriot Act II articles)
Village Voice - Bracing for Bush's War at Home

Quote:

....The development of the Total Information Awareness program, the mining of individuals' shopping and library records, and the melding of spy and arrest functions add up to government invasion of privacy and restriction of expression.

The indefinite detention of U.S. citizens deemed by Bush to be "enemy combatants," the secret detention and deportation of immigrants not charged with a crime, and the tracking and questioning of nationals from particular countries add up to unilateral executive power to deprive people of their physical liberty.
...
Among the more extreme powers Patriot Act II would grant the executive branch: The ability to strip citizenship from an American who supports a group the feds label as terrorist. Secret arrests�the government could avoid revealing the location of, charges against, and evidence on someone it was holding. Far looser checks on search-and-seizure activities of law enforcement. And a DNA database for people deemed to be terrorist suspects.
...
Ashcroft deflected angry Senate queries on Patriot Act II, saying "it would be the height of absurdity" to imagine the administration's hustling through a law without congressional review. Yet on October 25, 2001, 98 out of 99 voting senators hurriedly passed the 342-page Patriot Act I�without any public debate and before most of them had read it. The White House made clear their votes would be spun as a test of their patriotism.

From Village Voice - Ashcroft Out of Control:

Quote:

Many of the new security measures proposed by our government in the name of fighting the "war on terror" are not temporary. They are permanent changes to our laws. Even the measures that, on the surface, appear to have been adopted only as long as the war on terror lasts, could be with us indefinitely. Because, as Homeland Security director Tom Ridge himself has warned, terrorism is a "permanent condition to which America must . . . adjust." �American Civil Liberties Union, January 29

....This sequel to the USA Patriot Act states that "the government need not disclose information about individuals detained in investigations of terrorism until . . . the initiation of criminal charges."

Many of the prisoners caught in the Justice Department's initial dragnet were held for months without charges or contact with their families, who didn't know where they were. And these prisoners were often abused and out of reach of their lawyers�if they'd been able to find a lawyer before being shifted among various prisons. When, after much pressure, the Justice Department released the numbers of the imprisoned, there were no names attached, until a lower court decided otherwise.

....
Until now, in our law, an American could only lose his or her citizenship by declaring a clear intent to abandon it. But�and read this carefully from the new bill�"the intent to relinquish nationality need not be manifested in words, but can be inferred from conduct." (Emphasis added).

....What this section of the bill actually means is that if you provide "material support" to an organization by sending a check for its legal activities�not knowing that it has been designated a "terrorist" group for other things it does�you can be stripped of your citizenship and be detained indefinitely as an alien. While South Africa was ruled by an apartheid government, certain activities of the African National Congress were categorized as "terrorist," but many Americans provided support to the legal anti-apartheid work of that organization.

Psycho Economist · 04-06-2003, 06:32 PM

Following the first Gulf War, full of internationalist neo-liberalism, I found a quotation from Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease: the measles of humanity."

In other news, the definition is funny.

Jane Bovary · 04-06-2003, 07:14 PM

Hermann Goering:
Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

James Baldwin:
I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.

04-04-2003, 07:40 PM	#1
YHWH666 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North America Posts: 457	Patriotism defined PATRIOTISM, n. 1) The inability to distinguish between the government and one's "country"; 2) A highly praiseworthy virtue characterized by the desire to dominate and kill; 3) A feeling of exultation experienced when contemplating heaps of charred "enemy" corpses; 4) The first, last, and perennial refuge of scoundrels. PATRIOT, n. A dangerous tool of the powers that be. A herd member who compensates for lack of self-respect by identifying with an abstraction. An enemy of individual freedom. A fancier of the rich, satisfying flavor of boot leather. -- from The American Heretic's Dictionary edited by Chaz Bufe Patriotism is an absurd, intellectually bankrupt concept. There is not a single valid reason why one should �love their country� or be loyal to it in any way. The lives of Americans are worth no more than anyone else. Every time I hear someone say �we should just nuke the whole middle east� or see another street with flags hanging from every house I feel like a German Jew just as Hitler was coming into power. Lately I�ve been seriously considering moving to Canada. I hear the patriotism isn't so prevelent up there.

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04-04-2003, 08:05 PM	#2
yaktldg Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: usa Posts: 300	"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!" --Einstein

04-04-2003, 08:24 PM	#3
Jolimont Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USA expat, now living in France Posts: 1,153	Patriotism is a pretty name for nationalism, but it's no different, especially when it's expected of you.

04-04-2003, 10:35 PM	#7
Nataraja Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 433	Xenophobes, heh. No wonder these "patriots" act like living in this country is an unending Klan rally.

04-06-2003, 06:32 PM	#9
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	Following the first Gulf War, full of internationalist neo-liberalism, I found a quotation from Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease: the measles of humanity." In other news, the definition is funny.

04-06-2003, 07:14 PM	#10
Jane Bovary Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Fatal Shore Posts: 900	Hermann Goering: Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. James Baldwin: I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.

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