Hopeful Monsters

Peter Kirby -

- your experiences are clearly positive in that there seems to be neutrality towards your 'position' (if it can be called that) as an atheist.

'Suppose another way at expressing what I was trying to get at is that the same mental outlook which enables individuals to reject theism might be the same thing that rather sets them apart -

- it links to the notion in evolutionary biology that religion is merely a socially cohesive mechanism that has evolved in the brain from a time when such shared thoughts, ritual etc were vital to survival (tribal cohesion) and those that today lack that 'accepting' part of the brain might be, or feel they are, outsiders!!!

It also comes about because I have attended secularist gatherings (freethinkers and secularist campaigners) and I couldn't help feeling there was something of the outsider about all of them - as if sticking their necks out and rejecting religion had cost them something.

And many secualrists and freethinkers came from a 40s/50s generation where they really were outsiders by openly rejecting religion.

Thanks Volker for your profound quotation

And intresting to learn from demoninho that Holland is the reverse of most places on this front.

Hopeful Monsters

Godless Wonder -

- your posting does begin to get at what I was trying to ask in my OP.

Rational BAC - I too can't help being curious about emotional - perhaps he can tell his story in a separate thread, could be useful to hear.

emotional

"Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe." - Thomas Paine.

I have professed to believe what I do not believe, and I've grown tired of it. I don't believe in gods. That's it. Only my fear of death, my emotions, made me rationalise what I really don't believe in. And I've decided to try and fight my fear of death.



An article I read. Richard Dawkins' Good and Bad Reasons for Believing.

demoninho

Someone posted that article once on a christian board, they replied they had enough evidence: they felt god, an inerrable bible and the holy spirit that guides them from day to day.

Peter Kirby

When I read "recovering atheist," I thought it meant the same as "recovering Catholic" -- trying to get over all the baggage and guilt that atheism laid on you!

best,
Peter Kirby

emotional

My apologies for derailing the thread. If you have any more questions, contact me on PM. Let TruthIsTold's original debate continue.

Rusting Car Bumper

Since the majority responding seems to want to side step your questions, I'll answer.

Yes. Sometimes.

What would that be? God belief or religion? They aren't the same thing. I am not afraid of the word "religion". The common mistaken belief amongst many non-theists is that religion only involves god belief and is entirely negative. Both propositions are false.

DC

livius drusus

Hello TruthIsTold -

It's an interesting question you pose, with much room for nuance. In terms the obvious point (ie, social interaction from a minority perspective), I have it quite easy. Even though I live in the Bible Belt and have on occasion been a conversion target, I have never been treated cruely and most of the time people seem to see my atheism as something rather exotic. My parents find my nontheism insignificant. I find my extended family insignificant. All in all, atheism has never caused me any interpersonal difficulties whatsoever.

On the matter of being outside a vast sociological phenomenon, I can't say I've ever thought of it that way, but now that you've made me mull it over, I would have to say that I was once a theist (vague, liberal Jesus-seems-nice xian) so any needs I might have to tap into the collective consciousness must have been assuaged thoroughly back then.

Biff the unclean

If the question is "do Christians go out of their way to make me feel like an outsider" then the answer is yes. When left to myself then the answer is a resounding NO.
For instance when I gave up my birth citizenship, studied hard and became an American citizen…no
When I volunteered for combat duty in Vietnam and came home decorated like a Christmas tree…no
When I received my doctorate…no
When I pay huge taxes…no
When I participate in government…no
When I employ American citizens…no
When the President gets on TV and says that Atheists can't be real Americans…yes
When the Boy Scouts come into our public school and recruit every boy in class but reject my "A" student son solely for being an Atheist…yes

Hopeful Monsters

I find the last two in your list of "When"s quite disturbing.