David Mathews

Hello 99percent,

David: Theism is not a rejection of logic nor is it a rejection of any attempt to understand the mysteries of life. Believers in God are curious about such things and they have made immense contributions to science throughout history.

David: I realized that it was the appropriate thing to do.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Rainbow Walking,

David: When I said that "A reality where God exists is indistinguishable from one where he does not", I was stating that there is no preference for either theism or atheism. Theists and atheists do live in the same Universe and both do appeal to the universe for evidence to support their opinions regarding God's existence.

When you say "universe is consistent with a purely naturalistic scenario" I really don't know what you mean. To begin with, there is no "purely naturalistic scenario" which is available as an alternative to theism. All of the naturalistic scenarios which people have invented are altogether speculative and therefore lack empirical support.

Perhaps you could present some empirical evidence in favor of your own naturalistic explanation for the Universe's existence. You don't have any empirical evidence, do you?

David: I think it more likely that you have misinterpreted my statements than that naturalism will explain everything that exist.

David: Computers are never going to do this. The best technology available now are challenged by climate modelling and nuclear testing. A model of the origin of the Universe is many (perhaps hundreds or thousands) orders of magnitude more difficult.

David: I don't believe that I said this. I have said from the beginning that God's acts are either not observable or if they are observed they are not attributable to God. It is safe to say that God can do a whole lot of things within the Universe without revealing a single one of them to humankind. God can also do a whole lot of things to your mind and body without telling you or making the changes perceptible to you.

David: I don't really need to defend my opinions regarding brain-in-a-laboratoryism. Brain-in-a-laboratoryism is irrelevant at best, and also a distraction from the topic of contention.

David: You say all these things in order to make your own decision to be an atheist appear bold and as an advancement over theism. I interpret statements such as these as evidence that atheism does in fact offer some emotional benefits, and may also serve as a prop to bolster your intellectual pride as well.

David: At the present naturalism has not offered an explanation for everything which exist. If naturalism does offer such explanations in the future, after my death, that is wonderful -- but not a sufficient reason for me to adopt faith in naturalism.

David: We know that throughout 99% of human history humans did not know and did not anticipate that the electromagnetic spectrum existed. That is why it is possible to know that the Universe still has unknown qualities. I assert that God is ultimately responsible for all of the known and unknown qualities of the Universe.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello nyx,

David: I felt that becoming a Christian was the correct thing for me to do. The story of the gospel and Jesus' willingness to die for all humans inspired my decision.

David: Yes.

David: Yes.

David: I don't know what you are talking about. Could you elaborate?

David: The books of the New Testament are allowed to contradict.

David: "Faith alone" is merely a confession that some matters remain permanently outside the realm of human perception, empirical observation and comprehension.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Helen,


David: It serves no purpose to express your disappointment. Life is long, there will be ample opportunity to discuss these topics in detail later.

David: It serves little purpose for you to give me a lecture about what I am obligated to care about. These other people who are involved in this discussion are adults, they make decisions for their own self and they will face whatever consequences result from those decisions.

The fact of the matter is that I have amply demonstrated my care by engaging these people in discussion. My care for them does not require that I present myself in a manner which would satisfy them or otherwise fulfill their expectations.

That is all that I will say about either of these subjects. I came here to discuss topics relevant to theism and atheism, and that is exactly what I am doing.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

HelenM

Originally posted by David Mathews:

Helen: That's your right, of course. But I'm disappointed you wouldn't at least be clear on just one thing, having gone so far as to mention it in the first place.

David: It serves no purpose to express your disappointment. Life is long, there will be ample opportunity to discuss these topics in detail later.

Au contraire...you of all people should appreciate if I say "I did it because I wanted to and that was my purpose".

That seems to be you modus operandus so I'm surprised you didn't recognize it...

Unless you are God you cannot know whether something has a purpose or not; in fact I'd say all acts do have a purpose; it's part of my theology to believe 'nothing is wasted'. If things have no purpose I would wonder why not, if God really exists.

Helen: This sounds very selfish, to me, actually. It sounds as if you post here merely for your own amusement.
I expect you know that Jesus said the greatest commandments are 'love God' and 'love other people'.

I don't see how you can claim to love them if you don't care whether they are satisfied or not.

If what you meant was that you don't see that you are required to satisfy them, then I understand that. Some people will never be satisfied, I daresay. We can't live our lives based on the expectations of others, can we?

But on the other hand, how can we claim to 'love others' if we don't even care?

But I suppose you'll say this is irrelevant too.

One way of not being angry at people is to not care but I don't think that's the way that leads us into loving others. If your accomplishment of learning not to be angry is at the expense of caring, then - well, with all due respect, it's not one I aspire to. I want to not be angry AND to care, speaking for myself.

David: It serves little purpose for you to give me a lecture about what I am obligated to care about.

You are rather defensive this morning, David. I simply express my opinion and you receive it as a 'lecture'? Why? When you express your opinion is that always 'a lecture' or is it simply you expressing your opinion?

These other people who are involved in this discussion are adults, they make decisions for their own self and they will face whatever consequences result from those decisions.

True.

The fact of the matter is that I have amply demonstrated my care by engaging these people in discussion.

Hardly. You could be doing it for your own amusement. As a sort of - intellectual masturbation?

You could be using them. Kind of analogous to if you had a young woman as a sex-slave, there simply to provide you pleasure and you didn't care about her or respect her or her feelings.

I don't know but I don't see what rules these motivations out...

My care for them does not require that I present myself in a manner which would satisfy them or otherwise fulfill their expectations.

I understand...but I don't entirely agree with where you drew the line on what shows 'caring' and what doesn't.

That is all that I will say about either of these subjects. I came here to discuss topics relevant to theism and atheism, and that is exactly what I am doing.

And at this point I still wonder why you did.

But I appreciate your taking time to respond to me

love
Helen

agapeo

David wrote to Helen:

"I appreciate your interest in my religion but I cannot be drawn into this sort of conversation as it bear little relevance to the subject matter."

Agape: If this is true then why did you respond publicly to her? Did you expect no response from her or what? This sounds contradictory IMO. When you feel as though you can't afford to be drawn into side issues and yet do so, gee whiz, who are you fooling?

"As to certain people's dissatisfaction with my responses: Why should I care if they are satisfied or not? I don't write to satisfy those people. I don't write to fulfill the expectations of others."

Then why do you write what you do? Do you feel as though you're on a "mission from God"? I seriously doubt that to be the case. Remember the analogy of sheep and goats? (no offence to the atheists posting here)It seems to me that God would have better and greener pastures that He would want you to give your time to. And besides this -- To say you don't care, I have to wonder if God feels the same way. What do you think?

"Sincerely"

Sincerely what?

David Mathews

Hello IntenSity,

David: I read the document in question and must say that it served to affirm that atheism doesn't offer anything positive whatsoever.

If any of those twenty-four reasons are convincing to you, please present them on this thread so that I can refute them.

I must also say that the document reminds me of the sort of evangelical tracts which you will find in churches. I think that the twenty-four reasons serve only to affirm atheism for atheists.

When atheists begin to doubt atheism, they can read the twenty-four reasons and find at least one which will renew and strengthen his/her allegiance to atheism.

Anyhow, all twenty-four arguments for atheism presented on that web page are astonishingly weak and subject to immediate refutation or rejection.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

agapeo

David: It serves no purpose to express your disappointment. Life is long, there will be ample opportunity to discuss these topics in detail later.

No David, you got that wrong. Life is short. All the more reason why you should be careful and considerate of what you think, say, and do.

nyx

Hi David,

I have not read the document Intensity referred you to.

Is it your independent conclusion that athiesm offers nothing positive? How so? Compare it to Christian positives please.


Nyx

HelenM

hi IntenSity

Could you give us the link for that document again please? This is a long thread...I'd like to read it and it's not gonna be easy to find the URL buried back in the previous pages...

love
Helen