figuer

If the wise (scientist-humanists), want to be the effective rulers of society, they have to figure a way of using religion. Otherwise there will be a permanent threat that fundamentalist might achieve power over society. In order to access religion the wise have to change their attitude towards the concept of god. Secular humanism thus needs to develop a concept of god that is compatible with science, and around which a positive religion can be developed.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what this concept of god might be. In other words: What god can empirical science and secular humanism, without contradicting their principles, proclaim to exist?

This thread is a continuation of: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=217037

khalimirov

None. Empirical science (or secular humanism for that matter) cannot proclaim a God to exist. It is not it's terrain.

figuer

I consider you are mistaken. Empirical science can proclaim god to exist as a concept, then define the boundaries and applications of this concept. There is a branch of empirical science, Analytical Psychology, that has done precisely that.

khalimirov

Okay, I'll take your word for it. I have my doubts concerning the fruitfulness of this, but I'll follow the discussion in this thread and perhaps I'll change my mind.

Mageth

I see a big difference between "proclaiming a God to exist" and "proclaiming god to exist as a concept".

In the OP, you made a switch (unintentional, I'm sure) from "concept of god" to "a god" in your last sentence, when you said "What god can empirical science and secular humanism, without contradicting their principles, proclaim to exist"?

figuer

Of course, by definition there has to be a big difference between a scientific proclamation of what god can be observed to be and what a mythological system proclaims its god to be. However, proclaiming god to exist as a concept is proclaiming a god to exist.

Mageth

Since when? I admit that god exists as a concept, and I certainly don't proclaim a god to exist. A concept, yes; a god, no.

figuer

The following is an example of someone working with related concepts:

"Why Is Religion Natural?

Is religious belief a mere leap into irrationality as many skeptics assume? Psychology suggests that there may be more to belief than the suspension of reason.... Recent findings in psychology, anthropology, and neuroscience offer a more empirical approach, focused on the mental machinery activated in acquiring and representing religious concepts."

Pascal Boyer

http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/religion.html

Mageth

Anyway, as far as your question, "What god can empirical science and secular humanism, without contradicting their principles, proclaim to exist", I'd say:

- Forget emprical science. It does not depend on any (concept of) god.

- As far as secular humanism, I suppose that a concept of god along the lines of a deistic, hands-off, maybe created the world but in any case does not interact with the world, god is compatible with secular humanism. But then, there is no motivation or reason to build a religion around such a concept of god. Such a god is irrelevant, and a religion built around such a god-concept would be pointless (why have a religion devoted to an irrelevant god?).

Mageth

So, according to the above, it is perhaps the case that a "god-concept" may be "natural". If so, that's still not the same as "proclaiming a god to exist".