doubtingt

My answer lies in your own acknowledged definition of morality and it reliance on the concept of "should" or "ought". This concept refers specifically to preferences. The claim that people "should not" steal because it has certain objective consequences, does not answer the question "why shouldn't we steal?"It simply shifts the preference in question to the issue of
"why should we strive to acheive or avoid certain consequences". And this will go on ad infinitum. Ultimately, all ought or should questions can only be answered by claiming that some subjective mind(s) prefer it that way.

Keith Russell

Doubting said:
My answer lies in your own acknowledged definition of morality and it reliance on the concept of "should" or "ought". This concept refers specifically to preferences.

Keith: Words refer to concepts; you and I are--apparently--using the word 'morality' to refer to different concepts.

Doubting:
[snip]
Ultimately, all ought or should questions can only be answered by claiming that some subjective mind(s) prefer it that way.

Keith:
Then, reason is impotent to guide us, and the rational is actually only subjective 'preference'.

(Of course, I disagree...)

Keith.

Hubble head

That's so true, especially in a society where so many grow up being taught unreasonable beliefs and behaviors.

Hubble head

Individualistic humanism I can understand, but exactly what constitutes subjective human needs and aethetic preferences would be much harder to settle on.

AdamWho

I think it is possible to link the two ideologies; nobody can be purely one or the other anyway; people are on a spectrum between many competing ideologies.

Values for an objectivist are a way to achieve an end. I value a "humanistic" approach to people because it maximizes my goals (peace, cooperation, happiness). Many "Humanistic morals" are useful to the Objectivist not because they are objectively true, but because they are they are in the best interest of the objectivist.

Example: Supporting social programs because they reduce crime.

I believe comment about characterizing this as a leftist vs. rightist argument is incorrect. Both Objectivists and Humanists can have either "rightist" or "leftist" stances depending on the issue.