Treacle Worshipper

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dk
Treacle Worshipper: And every man should be considered a rapist until he proves he is not, reporting to the govt every 3 months...
dk: I assume background checks are performed on people before given access to kids in public schools. This hardly amounts to an accusation.

My point was that forcing people to prove that they don't have HIV is the same as forcing a man to prove that he is not a rapist, or forcing (prospective) parents to prove that they will not be infanticides.

dk: I advocate for the nuclear family precisely because public schools have degenerated over the last 40 years. Kids need to be tested for hiv because of the crisis that exists in public schools. 40 years ago metal detectors, drug sniffing dogs, and armed hall guards would have been unthinkable. Times have changed.

But this is a US problem. There are many, many other countries in the world, with more liberal laws relating to sexuality, where the above security precautions are unnecessary.

Treacle Worshipper: (3 months because that's the time it takes for the current test to pick up the HIV virus. You would have to test & re-test every 3 months to be sure someone didn't have HIV.)
dk: I'd be interested in your source.

My GP. (General practitioner. I think "primary care provider" is the US equivalent.) It takes 3 months for antibodies to the HIV virus to appear in the bloodstream in high enough levels that they can be picked up by a test. If someone tests -ve one day, they could go out & have unsafe sex that evening. You would have to wait 3 months & re-test in order to be sure that they were still -ve.

dk: I’m not out to lynch gays, there are home tests now for a number stds. Why not do the tests in school, or better yet hand them out tom mom and dad at teacher/parent conferences to administer at home along with drug tests. See how accountability works.

I think you live in a very different world from mine; in the UK STD & drug use are not at such proportions that forcing pupils to be tested for them would even be considered. I feel very sorry for the States if these problems are so endemic there.

TW

Kimpatsu

Are you wilfully this ignorant? I have empathy. Homophobes like you could do with some empathy, too. It would make you less bigoted.

keyser_soze

Where have you been for the last 20 pages?

dk

There was an article in the paper last week about a HIV+ college basketball player that gave over a 100 women HIV. Compusory testing could have prevented at least 75 people from the disease. What do you think, isn't that being empathetic?????

Treacle Worshipper

dk,
Yes, it is empathy. But even if the guy had known he was HIV+ there was nothing to make him tell the women he slept with. Unless in addition to testing you're going to have the diagnosis tattoo'd on people's foreheads. There have been cases of guys going out & deliberately infecting others.

No to New Laws On Deliberate HIV Infection

Seizure of records allowed in case over HIV infection

Deliberate HIV transmission


Diagnosis does not equal responsibility, sadly.
TW

Kimpatsu

No, because compulsion is still wrong. Your basketball player needs to learn empathy, too, but your statement is one in which you claim to know best. DK: a majority of one.

dk

dk: Its 20+ years since the epidemic broke out in gay communities and 20% of people with the virus are ignorant of their serostatus. The incubation period is 5 years. There has been no backlash against gay people. People benefit by knowing they are carriers for three reasons 1) to seek treatment 2) to take precautions not to spread the virus and 3) to track and deter anyone that poses a public health risk. This is a public health issue not a privacy issue. Gay youth (14-23) in some metropolitan areas are being infected at a 4% rate per/year. I can’t imagine why anyone would object to tracking an illness, least of all the people of an at risk population.
dk: It’s a small world. In the US metropolitan areas of NYC, SFS and LA house about 25% of the gays in the US, so they would be analogous to London.

Treacle Worshipper: My GP. (General practitioner. I think "primary care provider" is the US equivalent.) It takes 3 months for antibodies to the HIV virus to appear in the bloodstream in high enough levels that they can be picked up by a test. If someone tests -ve one day, they could go out & have unsafe sex that evening. You would have to wait 3 months & re-test in order to be sure that they were still -ve.
dk: > 20% of hiv+ people in the US have not been tested.

dk: HIV’s a serious problem in the London area where most gays live in the UK. In South Africa there’s >4mil people >20% of the population carry the virus. The scope and magnitude of the hiv/aids problem in Sub Saharan Africa is beyond me. There’s no one size fit all approach. Civilizations and nations grow and prosper by solving problems that arise from time to time. It seems pretty clear to me that wherever promiscuous anonymous sex flourishes so does HIV/AIDs.

But let me be specific about what I find most troubling in the US.
Lets move forward in time.
I find it incredible that people don’t bother to ask how hiv/aids got into public schools under the tutelage of political hacks response for public schools. In my opinion public schools, academia and government are afraid of being labeled homophobes. I repeat my prior statement, when the Gay Rights Movement got access to public schools they brought hiv/aids into the public schools. There has been no backlash against gays, so we need to move forward and remove the quilt of deniability. We need accountability, not cold war secrecy and privacy. The Gay Rights Movement has rode the hiv/aids epidemic to political power, now it time to anti-up. All indications, in the US at least, show that HAART treatments have lead to a resurgence of high risk behaviors that have spread the disease to youth. The Gay Rights Movement has concentrated its efforts on youth and needs to be called to account. The UK can take whatever lessons seem applicable, the first step to stop hiv/aids stops the spread to new generations. In my opinion SSM is the holy grail of the Gay Rights Movement but what’s happening in public schools doesn’t bode well for anyone, least of all the politically correct status quo.

Kimpatsu

DK, you are still arguing compulsion. Do you like being forced to do things? Maybe you do, but the whole point is, compulsion of adults is a priori wrong. Don't try to make me do anything I don't want to do, and I promise not to fight back. OK?

dk

Kimatsu you're a member of the status quo politically correct crowd that has failed to prevent hiv/aids from reaching out and touching young people. This is an epidemic, not a political crisis. The psychological workups the Gay Rights Movement and academics promote with raw political power haven't stopped the spread of aids, but have transported the disease to a new generation. The facts are quite persuasive. Please address the facts, not the failed programs perpetuated by the status quo for the last 20 years.

1) serostatus allows people to get early treatment
2) serostatus allows people to protect others
3) serostatus allows public health officials to deter the spread of the disease.

The quilt of deniability no longer serves The Gay Rights Movement, we need to stop the spread of hiv/aids to successive generations. SSM is simply another political ploy to advance an gay agenda. NO MORE SECRECY!!! Compassion demands disclosure not more political games. Ignorance makes people fearful not disclosure.

Kimpatsu

The problem with HIV spread is twofold: Lack of proper sex education, and people refusing to take personal responsibility, both of which are political issues. Your requirement of mandatory testing is also a political solution. In fact, it is counterproductive, not least because it further estranges those tested against their will from the concept of personal responsibility. How can they take personal responsibility when you keep forcing them to do this, and denying them the right to do that? Just because you want everyone marching in step doesn't make it right.