rainbow walking

leyline: though I empathise with you RW on the issue of a meaningful direction in life, it is a bit early to give up on pomo. It isn’t just science that throws out new and radical possibilities, though I agree that a scheme towards immortality is radical and inspires the imagination of how we might approach the unknown, particularly death. It is tempting to fear that we have reached the ever trivial existence of alternating between bickering and entertainment. But we haven’t even globalised capitalist democracy yet. Not everyone has the luxury of the western post modernist.

rw; Both capitalism and democracy are just layers of the insulation. They are only meaningful as a means of thrusting us up and out a little further from the black hole. Both lead to bickering and ride forward on entertainment, provide some degree of enslaving luxury and become quite expensive in the interim translation. Perhaps folks unfettered from the constraints of this palnet and short life spans will come to a form of individual self governance equivalent to anarchy, (not Marx's form). Capitalism would certainly stand to gain in leaps and bounds. A person capable of living a 1000 years could sign a 200 year house note and pay 25.00 a month, freeing up the rest of his capital for other things. A bank making such a loan would reap huge dividends in interest over a 250 year period. Governments wouldn't have to worry about social security and retirement age benefits and would collect far more taxes from people who could contribute for 8 or 9 hundred years as opposed to the current 40.

leyline: It is quite possible that our lives may change radically through simply not fearing pain and suffering as we did. To be part of a genuinely global culture. That we become free to explore subtle influences that are wiped out by the necessity of everyday life at the moment. We still hang on to the work ethic for example in the west.

rw: And if we had more time, along with the net increase in our value that would naturally accompany such a change, we could explore continents, alternate lifestyles, other planets, acquire degrees in several fields, read thousands of books and write many more.

leyline: Also we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that not everyone has philosophical tendencies. It would be easy to look down on say the guy who gets average grades at school, a good job, gets married, two kids, divorced, alcoholism, finds religion, plays the keyboard, another good job, remarries, 4 kids, retires, and then sweetly fades away enjoying the garden and his favourite soaps.

rw: And nothing in this philosophy should be construed as a challenge to the simple life. Man would not be forced to participate if he didn't want to. I imagine under such a change marriage contracts would become archaic and the entire field of human relationships would be altered. Considering the divorce rate, along with all the residual negative effects...this might not be a bad thing. But even that would not be compulsory.

leyline: From the inside there is a lot of meaning there. In fact is it not true that most people get a great deal of meaning by accepting the prevailing culture and are proud to support it? In the sense that it could be almost any half decent culture.

rw: Cultures change whether folks embrace them or reject them.

leyline: Thus maybe pomo is the angst of those with philosophical aspirations? Haven’t such people always been disappointed by the behaviour of the masses? Why isn't your idea fine as a sub culture in itself?

rw: The philosopher has always been the vanguard of change.

"yes, yes...too much urgency, in fact....the kind of urgency that causes us to make snap judgments and hasty decisions...the kind of pressure that creates climates of war over the most insignificant things...made significant by our short life spans."

leyline: i know what you mean. But i wonder if immortality would therefore take a lot of significance away.

rw: No doubt, a lot of things we now consider significant would no longer seem so. That we couldn't replace them with even more significant things doesn't follow.

leyline

Rainbow Walking

i admire your enthusiasm and imagination......... but why can't you be happy with your idea as a sub culture in the pomo sea of multiculturalism?

rainbow walking

rw: Because life and death are issues that cut across all cultures. It's not that I'm trying to find a niche for this philosophy or force it in any specific direction. I'm just a messenger, so to spoke, so where ever the message happens to come to roost is where it comes to roost.

But let's ratchet up the discussion to a notch and level I think may interest you even more. The entire three opening posts I dedicated to augmenting the mystery of death and how much our lives are under the influence of that mystery. But that's really only half the philosophical compendium because, in reality, life is as much a mystery to man as death is. Oh, we have our biological explanations and these are reduced to chemical reactions and we're currently reducing things dramatically in the physics disciplines...but in reality, we still aren't completely sure what the hell "life" is. Because of the direction of our thrust in seeking an answer to this question we've just come to assume it is something associated with that thrust. But we've still not been able to duplicate the process of life emerging from non-animate material and even if we do that still doesn't promise us a complete understanding.

Thus, even if we achieve immortality, a mystery remains.

leyline

Rainbow walking

i totally agree about life and death being a mystery. Even for an immortal life form.

but what i was about to say is that this conversation has actually changed my view of postmodernism. It has gone from a relief from the oppressions of absolutisms, a respite for its lack of direction,...... to an appreciation of its multi direction.

The layers of insulation are not just comfort blankets, but records of inquiry and understanding too. There is a risk in diversity of choice, namely trivialisation. But compared to the risk of conformity i am more than happy. Yes in the short term we respond to focus born of self interest but the potential cross fertilisation of multiculturalism can more than compensate for an absolutist obsessive drive.

I have to also disagree that the philosopher is the vanguard of change. I have long since thought that technology changes culture more than anything else. Scientifically discovered immortality included. Who knows what else will be developed in the meantime?

rainbow walking

leylinei totally agree about life and death being a mystery. Even for an immortal life form.

but what i was about to say is that this conversation has actually changed my view of postmodernism. It has gone from a relief from the oppressions of absolutisms, a respite for its lack of direction,...... to an appreciation of its multi direction.

rw: And thus you are free to explore the vast reserviors of uncharted waters that flow up out of man's creative spirit into the crisp clear atmosphere of life. To define your vision according to your will and imagination.

leyline: The layers of insulation are not just comfort blankets, but records of inquiry and understanding too. There is a risk in diversity of choice, namely trivialisation. But compared to the risk of conformity i am more than happy. Yes in the short term we respond to focus born of self interest but the potential cross fertilisation of multiculturalism can more than compensate for an absolutist obsessive drive.

rw: Conflict and change, creation by definition.

leyline: I have to also disagree that the philosopher is the vanguard of change. I have long since thought that technology changes culture more than anything else. Scientifically discovered immortality included. Who knows what else will be developed in the meantime?

rw: I know one thing that will be developed...me.