Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Cromwell Institute · 03-24-2003, 01:37 AM

Moral support. I see.

How, exactly, does this help the troops? Will it prevent a single casualty? Will it aid their operational effectiveness? Will it even affect their morale in the slightest?

"Moral support" without moral action to back it up is like prayer - it makes the giver of such "support" feel good, but is totally worthless.

If you want to support your troops in a moral fashion you should do all you can to have them removed from a situation where other people are actively trying to kill them.

Thor Q. Mada · 03-24-2003, 01:44 AM

And don't forget, you all are supporting the troops, and so will your children through tax contributions. Thank You!!!

MrSparkle · 03-24-2003, 01:47 AM

Well I am for the removal for the troops from a harmful situation... but that's a moot point now, we are stuck with this war for a while, it will take large sweaping popular support to end it before we "win", and we will probably win before you can convince 75% of Americans that war is bad. And what message is it sending if we quit now, after less than a week... They say the Taliban way underestimated Americans because of what happened around the world in the 70s and 80s, after 'nam we wouldn't commit to any action... just go in until it got a little unpopular and then leave.... We can't do that any more.

On a side note, I think my "moral support" or "prayers" does help troop moral. If you can tell me how else I can support the troops, other than waiting another year and a half to vote out Bush, or somehow gaining enough courage/insanity to put my life on the line, I might just do it.

[Edit]
PS. If you tell me not to pay my taxes, I will instantly loose all respect for you and your arguments. My taxes wouldn't make even the smallest dent, our gov't doesn't seem to have any problems with sinking deeper into debt.... Not paying my taxes will only land me in trouble..... and I can't believe people are using that for an argument.
[/Edit]

The Cromwell Institute · 03-24-2003, 01:57 AM

What message would a pullout now send to the world? That the Bush administration has finally woken up to the fact that they are part of an international community, and that they can't just bomb the shit out of any country that they have difficulties with.

America has already proven it is not afraid to use force countless times. The world is not going to suddenly see the U.S. as a nation of chickens if they pull out of Iraq now. The world knows that America is not invincible - the Bush administration showing a little humility and admitting this fact would not be seen as weakness. The Bush administration admitting they are wrong and apologizing [for the war, for installing the dictator that is supposedly the reason for the war] would be a show of considerable courage and moral fibre. It would also go a long way towards restoring America's international credibility.

Thor Q. Mada · 03-24-2003, 02:02 AM

Mrsparkle, please go on paying taxes and incurring huge debts for your children to pay. I have no problem with that. Where did I suggest to stop doing that??
I am only saying that your increasing national debt is a danger for us all and for the future of the US. Somebody will pay the bill!!

The Cromwell Institute · 03-24-2003, 02:04 AM

As for how you can support your troops, start lobbying your elected officials to ensure that returning troops are given their appropriate financial entitlements, especially medical benefits. Keep paying your taxes, definitely - but do what you can to ensure that your tax dollars help support your troops when they really need it. Namely, when they come back with post-traumatic stress disorder, tumors, respiratory illnesses, radiation poisoning, missing limbs etc. etc.

crocodile deathroll · 03-24-2003, 03:29 AM

I would support some of our Aussie troops because at least they signed up to be accountable to the international courts.

And I would particularly support this one the Aussie fighter pilot with a conscience. I will give him the thumbs up

The Cromwell Institute · 03-24-2003, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll
And I would particularly support this one the Aussie fighter pilot with a conscience. I will give him the thumbs up [/B]

Seconded. Aborting that mission would have taken some balls.

Jimmy Higgins · 03-24-2003, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Cromwell Institute
[B]Moral support. I see.

How, exactly, does this help the troops?

As far as I can see, I think its up there with support through prayer as well.

Kim o' the Concrete Jungle · 03-24-2003, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Cromwell Institute
As for how you can support your troops, start lobbying your elected officials to ensure that returning troops are given their appropriate financial entitlements, especially medical benefits. Keep paying your taxes, definitely - but do what you can to ensure that your tax dollars help support your troops when they really need it. Namely, when they come back with post-traumatic stress disorder, tumors, respiratory illnesses, radiation poisoning, missing limbs etc. etc.

There was something about this in the Four Corners report on 24th of March. Apparently "supporting the troops" doesn't extend to giving a rat's arse about them when they come down with "gulf war syndrome" a few years later.

03-24-2003, 03:29 AM	#17
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	Support Aussie Troops I would support some of our Aussie troops because at least they signed up to be accountable to the international courts. And I would particularly support this one the Aussie fighter pilot with a conscience. I will give him the thumbs up

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03-24-2003, 01:37 AM	#11
The Cromwell Institute Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 766	Moral support. I see. How, exactly, does this help the troops? Will it prevent a single casualty? Will it aid their operational effectiveness? Will it even affect their morale in the slightest? "Moral support" without moral action to back it up is like prayer - it makes the giver of such "support" feel good, but is totally worthless. If you want to support your troops in a moral fashion you should do all you can to have them removed from a situation where other people are actively trying to kill them.

03-24-2003, 01:44 AM	#12
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	And don't forget, you all are supporting the troops, and so will your children through tax contributions. Thank You!!!

03-24-2003, 01:47 AM	#13
MrSparkle Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 21	Well I am for the removal for the troops from a harmful situation... but that's a moot point now, we are stuck with this war for a while, it will take large sweaping popular support to end it before we "win", and we will probably win before you can convince 75% of Americans that war is bad. And what message is it sending if we quit now, after less than a week... They say the Taliban way underestimated Americans because of what happened around the world in the 70s and 80s, after 'nam we wouldn't commit to any action... just go in until it got a little unpopular and then leave.... We can't do that any more. On a side note, I think my "moral support" or "prayers" does help troop moral. If you can tell me how else I can support the troops, other than waiting another year and a half to vote out Bush, or somehow gaining enough courage/insanity to put my life on the line, I might just do it. [Edit] PS. If you tell me not to pay my taxes, I will instantly loose all respect for you and your arguments. My taxes wouldn't make even the smallest dent, our gov't doesn't seem to have any problems with sinking deeper into debt.... Not paying my taxes will only land me in trouble..... and I can't believe people are using that for an argument. [/Edit]

03-24-2003, 01:57 AM	#14
The Cromwell Institute Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 766	What message would a pullout now send to the world? That the Bush administration has finally woken up to the fact that they are part of an international community, and that they can't just bomb the shit out of any country that they have difficulties with. America has already proven it is not afraid to use force countless times. The world is not going to suddenly see the U.S. as a nation of chickens if they pull out of Iraq now. The world knows that America is not invincible - the Bush administration showing a little humility and admitting this fact would not be seen as weakness. The Bush administration admitting they are wrong and apologizing [for the war, for installing the dictator that is supposedly the reason for the war] would be a show of considerable courage and moral fibre. It would also go a long way towards restoring America's international credibility.

03-24-2003, 02:02 AM	#15
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Mrsparkle, please go on paying taxes and incurring huge debts for your children to pay. I have no problem with that. Where did I suggest to stop doing that?? I am only saying that your increasing national debt is a danger for us all and for the future of the US. Somebody will pay the bill!!

03-24-2003, 02:04 AM	#16
The Cromwell Institute Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 766	As for how you can support your troops, start lobbying your elected officials to ensure that returning troops are given their appropriate financial entitlements, especially medical benefits. Keep paying your taxes, definitely - but do what you can to ensure that your tax dollars help support your troops when they really need it. Namely, when they come back with post-traumatic stress disorder, tumors, respiratory illnesses, radiation poisoning, missing limbs etc. etc.

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