Seraphim

"I can respect your views, but please understand that there are some people who would raise people's hopes just to dash them to pieces. "

My reply : I don't see how a hope could be dashed. If you hope for an afterlife, how could that be dashed while you are still living?
Your hope is YOUR to hold, if you allow other to show what you should hope and what you shouldn't hope for, you might as well say you have no hope at all.

"First Pascal's wager, now "atheism leads to suicide"; what's next, "no atheists in foxholes"? "

My reply : People who commit suicides doesn't necessary be an Atheist, it can be anyone with any background. Any person who not willing to face life will take his or her own life.

Only thing difference between an Atheist and a Theist is that Theist believe that commiting suicides is some sort of sin or something of a waste, thus they are forced not to consider it as an option.

By Mageth

"It would seem to me that the person who places all hope in an afterlife is more likely to sit around waiting to decompose than someone with goals and plans to reach those goals. "

My reply : Incorrect. To someone who believes in afterlife (except maybe a Muslim), they will not waste this one by sitting around and waiting to die. Even a Buddhist will spend a certain portion of his or her time helping others with their problems while strifing to achieve what he or she seeks.

Demosthenes

I'm not sure what you mean by "living forvever but not growing old". Do you mean like the regular aging process, living forever doesn't mean growing old, not if you're constantly renewing your body. True, it would require highly advanced techniques and means to do that, but it's hardly a virtual impossibility.

Rusting Car Bumper

Hope for what? What is hope anyway?

Hope, to me, requires some negative state such as a state of dispair. Since I have no such state I don't require a sense of hope.

DC

winstonjen

Hope is when you wish for something better than what you have now, because your desired state is different to your current state.

echidna

I know you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway, that I'm enjoying life just too damn much to think of dying.

What's your motivation not to ?

winstonjen

I put it in simple words. A cop tells a criminal that he may be able to grant him immunity. But the cop knows that there is no way that immunity would be granted. So the criminal gives evidence, testifies all the while under the impression that he will get off. The policeman on the other hand, knows otherwise.

Seraphim

"I put it in simple words. A cop tells a criminal that he may be able to grant him immunity. But the cop knows that there is no way that immunity would be granted. So the criminal gives evidence, testifies all the while under the impression that he will get off. The policeman on the other hand, knows otherwise. "

My reply : A weird analog ...
If I was the criminal and a cop tells me to testify and he will grant me immunity, what I would have done is :

1. Counsol with my lawyer first before making decisions.

2. Make sure that the deal is one that is by the book (the law) so I'm quite sure that I will get off if I testify.

3. Make sure that the Cops will do some thing in their behalf to make sure that they will hold their end of the bargain, such as bring me and my family to a safe-house etc.

4. Save some information which is curcial till the VERY last minute to make sure I got what I deserve.

Either way, I will not sit somewhere and day-dream about getting scotfree while doing nothing about getting off the hook because such act is pure stupidity.
Any criminal whose hope got dashed because he sat on his fat butt waiting for others to do everything deserves to be behind bars.

PS : ALL of 1-4 is based on what I see in the movies, I have no priar experience walking the wrong side of the law.

winstonjen

Then how do you know that is what's going to happen? There are corrupt police officers who will do anything for a promotion.

Mageth

People who commit suicides doesn't necessary be an Atheist, it can be anyone with any background. Any person who not willing to face life will take his or her own life.

True (except it should be "may take his or her own life").

Only thing difference between an Atheist and a Theist is that Theist believe that commiting suicides is some sort of sin or something of a waste, thus they are forced not to consider it as an option.

Strawman.

I'm an atheist, and like most atheists I know, I think suicide is "something of a waste." I also think suicide is the wrong choice in almost all situations. I do think one can easily come up with some situations where suicide is a viable option, such as the tragic jumpers from the WTC on 9/11. This position seems a bit more fair and flexible than never considering suicide as an option.

In addition, you say xians consider suicide "some sort of sin." This implies that god will punish suicide victims for their actions, presumably by sending them to hell for eternity. Now since many suicides are acts of severely depressed (read: ill) people, why does god get off on condemning and punishing them for the tragic results of their illness?

Incorrect. To someone who believes in afterlife (except maybe a Muslim), they will not waste this one by sitting around and waiting to die. Even a Buddhist will spend a certain portion of his or her time helping others with their problems while strifing to achieve what he or she seeks.

Why "except maybe a Muslim"? I don't get that at all.

Focusing on xianity, the bible clearly teaches to "lay up treasures in heaven" rather than perishable treasures here on earth. The general focus of xianity is that this life is but a short time of sorrow to prepare one for eternal bliss. The biblical underlying goal of xianity, in all its actions, is not the betterment of humanity (who, by their definition, is corrupt), but the increase of the Kingdom.

As an example of xians "sitting around and waiting to die," there are some orders in the Roman Catholic Church where monks and nuns cloister themselves in monasteries, pray, attend mass, live frugally, etc., all in preparing themselves for the spiritual kingdom and removing themselves from the fleshly earth. IMO, this equates to "sitting around and waiting to die."

winstonjen

I think that he/she was referring to the Muslim suicide bombers - which is tripe - they're a minority - and they're fanatics to boot.