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Old 01-17-2003, 10:09 AM   #31
dk
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Originally posted by winstonjen
Hmmm...I think that an objection to murdering Hitler in the past would come from the availability of better options - perhaps keeping Hitler from taking over Germany would suffice. I can understand that viewpoint.
Actually, had Hitler been murdered before the NAZI party took power, it might have delayed WW II until Germany had the A-Bomb. The point is that Hitler's murder might easily have lead to dozen more perverse renditions of history. For example perhaps the eugenics movement would have ripened into a fascist United States. The idea of changing the past for the better is speculative at best.
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Old 01-17-2003, 10:30 AM   #32
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Originally posted by dk
Actually, had Hitler been murdered before the NAZI party took power, it might have delayed WW II until Germany had the A-Bomb. The point is that Hitler's murder might easily have lead to dozen more perverse renditions of history. For example perhaps the eugenics movement would have ripened into a fascist United States. The idea of changing the past for the better is speculative at best.
Just to be clear, I only used the example of killing Hitler to stop the Nazis as a speculative scenario. Please note that I said "if you go back in time and murder Hitler to stop the Holocaust and WW2 and succeed in both". I put that in there specifically to avoid any "would killing Hitler really have stopped WW2" talk (which belongs in a completely different thread).
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Old 01-17-2003, 04:07 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Silent Acorns
Just to be clear, I only used the example of killing Hitler to stop the Nazis as a speculative scenario. Please note that I said "if you go back in time and murder Hitler to stop the Holocaust and WW2 and succeed in both". I put that in there specifically to avoid any "would killing Hitler really have stopped WW2" talk (which belongs in a completely different thread).
I'm not sure how one defines success unconditionally, except by claiming the power of divine providence. Perhaps by writing revisionist history people imagine they can reverse engineer success, but the exercise only masks failure with a lie. I think reason requires us to examine the possibility that the deplorable and corrupt conditions that made fascism possible created Hitler. The murder of Hitler doesn't mitigate the underlying causes of the Great Depression, punitive Versailles Treaty, or the Eugenics movement Hitler championed.
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Old 01-29-2003, 04:19 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Undercurrent
I'd go out on a limb and say yes, the ends do justify the means. The problem is that most of the time people don't consider all of the ends when they're making the calculation, but only the ones they're perticularily interested in.

m.
Nor do they consider all of the means.
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