Freethought & Rationalism Archive

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pat Kelly
Firsthand Accounts Case 4:

I am a 12 year old girl. I started having the most wonderful sex with my cousin Jeannie when I was 7. she was 13. she is now 18 and we still have such wonderful sex together. I know I will be much better prepared in life because of it. I am not confused or repressed or would I want to have anything different.

You really need to stop now, for I fear the hammer will fall on you. Not only are your posts illicit and disgusting...You have not proven they exist anywhere besides your own mind and some sick pedo mail list(broad assumption).

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 05:41 PM

You're missing the point soyze. Yes it is a tragedy when innocent people die, but nothing in life comes without cost. When people drive they risk crashing and therefore killing others, should we ban driving all together? You have to find a point of acceptable losses, and if the law enforcement would do their job, and responsible drinking was advocated, then there would be even less problems. You give drinking to 18 year olds all of a sudden and of course there is going to be abuse, they should have upheld the law for a longer time and dealt with problems accordingly. There are many deaths each year from DUIs of people of legal age, maybe we should outlaw drinking all together? While we're at it lets outlaw all social interaction as it could pose a risk to someone's life.
Jake

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Of course I have. It's a waste of time. The subject is closed as far as you and I are concerned.

You could just say " I am defeated ", as it is clear as day

Jake

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
You're missing the point soyze. Yes it is a tragedy when innocent people die, but nothing in life comes without cost. When people drive they risk crashing and therefore killing others, should we ban driving all together? You have to find a point of acceptable losses, and if the law enforcement would do their job, and responsible drinking was advocated, then there would be even less problems. You give drinking to 18 year olds all of a sudden and of course there is going to be abuse, they should have upheld the law for a longer time and dealt with problems accordingly. There are many deaths each year from DUIs of people of legal age, maybe we should outlaw drinking all together? While we're at it lets outlaw all social interaction as it could pose a risk to someone's life.
Jake

Exactly! The problem is that you fail to realize that teen driving alone is dangerous, add alcohol and the cost quickly escalates beyond what people are willing to accept...hence the laws in place. Should we not restrict guns for minors and criminals because it treads on your freedom to own one? You have the right idea, but you are not seeing it clearly. THE COST IS TOO HIGH. The cost is too high to lift restrictions on underage drinking, the cost is too high to lift restrictions on paedophilia. This is not to closet you, it is to keep you SAFE, not due to you, but DESPITE you. Do you think you are the first teenager who thought they should be allowed to drink before legislated age?

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
Let me guess, you didn't bother to look up the latin...

The safety of the people is the HIGHEST law. --cicero

Your freedom ends where mine begins, where my daughter's begins, where my wife's begins.....etc. My freedoms end where yours be....well, you get the point. Should my freedom to indulge in whatever I feel appropriate infringe on YOUR rights to live and let live? The country is obsessed with freedom of everything, while overlooking the NEED for order. We are also not free to rape, rob, and murder. There is a reason for this. I know the laws chafe you now, they did me as well, but I later saw the necessity for them. I cannot make you see them, you have to do that on your own. But I promise, on my honor, that they are of more value than you can appreciate right now.

I believe that statement would be better if it read "An adequate amount of safety is the highest law". If safety was the HIGHEST law, then we would all be locked in little cellars somewhere for fear of any threats. Here in the U.S.A., we have more than an adequate amount of safety, and lowering the drinking age would not significantly reduce that amount of safety to an unacceptable level.
Jake

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
Exactly! The problem is that you fail to realize that teen driving alone is dangerous, add alcohol and the cost quickly escalates beyond what people are willing to accept...hence the laws in place. Should we not restrict guns for minors and criminals because it treads on your freedom to own one? You have the right idea, but you are not seeing it clearly. THE COST IS TOO HIGH. The cost is too high to lift restrictions on underage drinking, the cost is too high to lift restrictions on paedophilia. This is not to closet you, it is to keep you SAFE, not due to you, but DESPITE you. Do you think you are the first teenager who thought they should be allowed to drink before legislated age?

I guess our definition of "acceptable losses" differs a bit.
Jake

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 05:50 PM

Do the exercise Jake, think not from your perspective, but as a protector of the people. Pretend you govern the people! Get into the mind frame for just a while, and then look at the law. Yes, some of it's restrictive, but it's there BECAUSE the costs are too high. Are there ridiculous laws? Absolutely, but the basic laws, and you can see them when you wipe away all the stupid ones, are there for a REASON. Someone decided that their daughter or son was too valuable, and they spoke up. They didn't do it to give you a hard time, but to SAVE people's lives. Why do you think it's a bad idea to give a gun to a convicted felon. Not all of them, but the majority? Why do you think it is necessary to register sex offenders? Not all of them, but the majority.

To understand, you will have to look beyond your personal wishes, and see the NEEDS of the people.

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
I believe that statement would be better if it read "An adequate amount of safety is the highest law". If safety was the HIGHEST law, then we would all be locked in little cellars somewhere for fear of any threats. Here in the U.S.A., we have more than an adequate amount of safety, and lowering the drinking age would not significantly reduce that amount of safety to an unacceptable level.
Jake

Based on WHAT information? You're still not seeing it.

Pat Kelly · 05-26-2003, 05:53 PM

Firsthand Account Case 6:

Hello all,
I had sex several time as a child. I played with girls my age, and had sex with a few grown men. I'm now 31 years old, and feel ultra secure, both sexually, and as an upstanding adult male. Through life, I have found that permiscuity at any age runs in the family. My father was a bit of a pedo- he raped my half sister. My mother was a prude (it required me to learn COMPLETELY on my own...) Once my father was gone, when I was 5, I would seek out close relationships with anyone. I met a man through my babysitter. He had a sister my age, and his grandmother took care of me while my mother ran her own life.
The man was about 12 years older, and had an insane sexual appetite. I am sure that he did his sister, but he kept that seperate between each child. I am a little sad about that, because I was "examining" her as well.
He let me in on all of the secrets, and was the funnest guy ever. He showed me porn mags, and even let me smell an adult female's panties (dirty, of course). He let me be as open and fun as I ever could. This was freedom. Freedom to act how I wanted, without repercussions. I would ask a question, and he would answer it. His favorite thing was to slide his penis between my legs. I still remember the smell of the vaseline.
All these years later, I remember those times. I must have been irresistable, because it seems like I attracted many, many adults. So many were simply affraid, and a child doesn't approach these situations like they really want to. My dream is that I have a child that can learn to be sexually strong, and charismatic like me. It really seems like a shame to me, our "free" America is actually opressive to the things that make children learn to be adults. I could never marry if I didn't know how the sex was first. My girlfriend (nine years my junior) loves to hear about my early escapades, and is working with me to enhance my (what used to be secret) sexual imagination. Thank you Eddie.

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
I guess our definition of "acceptable losses" differs a bit.
Jake

Greatly I would assume, I have more to lose. I have a wife and two daughters. You only have your life, and at your age, you cannot really fathom it's loss. Ask others. Find someone's opinion you respect, and ask them what a family is to lose. It's a loss that is MORE than your life. Your own life is a trifle...but someone you love? That is such a high price that I doubt even you could bear to lose it gracefully under the auspices of "more freedom".

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05-26-2003, 05:41 PM	#272
SimplyAtheistic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 503	You're missing the point soyze. Yes it is a tragedy when innocent people die, but nothing in life comes without cost. When people drive they risk crashing and therefore killing others, should we ban driving all together? You have to find a point of acceptable losses, and if the law enforcement would do their job, and responsible drinking was advocated, then there would be even less problems. You give drinking to 18 year olds all of a sudden and of course there is going to be abuse, they should have upheld the law for a longer time and dealt with problems accordingly. There are many deaths each year from DUIs of people of legal age, maybe we should outlaw drinking all together? While we're at it lets outlaw all social interaction as it could pose a risk to someone's life. Jake

05-26-2003, 05:50 PM	#277
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Do the exercise Jake, think not from your perspective, but as a protector of the people. Pretend you govern the people! Get into the mind frame for just a while, and then look at the law. Yes, some of it's restrictive, but it's there BECAUSE the costs are too high. Are there ridiculous laws? Absolutely, but the basic laws, and you can see them when you wipe away all the stupid ones, are there for a REASON. Someone decided that their daughter or son was too valuable, and they spoke up. They didn't do it to give you a hard time, but to SAVE people's lives. Why do you think it's a bad idea to give a gun to a convicted felon. Not all of them, but the majority? Why do you think it is necessary to register sex offenders? Not all of them, but the majority. To understand, you will have to look beyond your personal wishes, and see the NEEDS of the people.

05-26-2003, 05:53 PM	#279
Pat Kelly Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: California Posts: 134	Firsthand Account Case 6: Hello all, I had sex several time as a child. I played with girls my age, and had sex with a few grown men. I'm now 31 years old, and feel ultra secure, both sexually, and as an upstanding adult male. Through life, I have found that permiscuity at any age runs in the family. My father was a bit of a pedo- he raped my half sister. My mother was a prude (it required me to learn COMPLETELY on my own...) Once my father was gone, when I was 5, I would seek out close relationships with anyone. I met a man through my babysitter. He had a sister my age, and his grandmother took care of me while my mother ran her own life. The man was about 12 years older, and had an insane sexual appetite. I am sure that he did his sister, but he kept that seperate between each child. I am a little sad about that, because I was "examining" her as well. He let me in on all of the secrets, and was the funnest guy ever. He showed me porn mags, and even let me smell an adult female's panties (dirty, of course). He let me be as open and fun as I ever could. This was freedom. Freedom to act how I wanted, without repercussions. I would ask a question, and he would answer it. His favorite thing was to slide his penis between my legs. I still remember the smell of the vaseline. All these years later, I remember those times. I must have been irresistable, because it seems like I attracted many, many adults. So many were simply affraid, and a child doesn't approach these situations like they really want to. My dream is that I have a child that can learn to be sexually strong, and charismatic like me. It really seems like a shame to me, our "free" America is actually opressive to the things that make children learn to be adults. I could never marry if I didn't know how the sex was first. My girlfriend (nine years my junior) loves to hear about my early escapades, and is working with me to enhance my (what used to be secret) sexual imagination. Thank you Eddie.

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