Doctor X

Anyone wishing to gain enterence to the Kingdom of Heaven [Timeshares available now!--Ed.] may feel free to render all of their worldly possessions unto me . . . cash preferable in real currency . . . none of this "Euro" or "Canadian" stuff.

--J.D.

rfwu

if you are supposed to give to the poor, you are actually doing them a disservice, because they gain money and make them have less chances to get into heaven!

Rational BAC

I think the basic idea is this material life is meaningless anyway (which it probably is)---------so give away everything you own and focus more on a spiritual level. And you will not only find happiness in this life, but in the next too.

Not that anyone, especially Americans, ====Christian, atheist or anything at all do anything but give lip service to this very sublime idea.

But it is definitely one of the more unusual ideas that Jesus had. Very basic too. Technically you are not a Christian ---certainly not a 'saved' Christian ---unless you give up all material ambitions and follow spiritual ambitions.

Who knows? Maybe He was right. Not that any of us money grubbing Americans will ever know anyway.

Obviously we are all going to hell. Because we all fall short of this ideal. Might as well drink some good booze, fornicate with some sweet young things, screw our neighbor for our own material benefit and figure, "What the hell I go to Church every Sunday so I've got a pass in."

NOT!!!!!!!

Rational BAC

The one saving grace for any of us, Christian or otherwise, is that we ALL supposedly (and in actuality pretty much certain) fall short of this ideal.

I guess it depends on how far you fall short.

Trekkie With a Phaser

Well, playing devil's advocate for the moment (or is that god's advocate? ), those passages don't necessarily mean that a rich man can't get into heaven. Read the passages agan:

In the bolded portion you can see that Jesus says "hard" not "impossible". I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that he meant that rich men are less likely to act meek and moral than the poor who are already meek. This is not to say that it is impossible for them to act morally.

That having been said, I think Koy is completely right about this. This still supports self-enforced poverty as the best way to remain moral and get into heaven. It is indeed a fantastic way to ccontrol people.

Amos

Heaven has nothing to do with ethics.

But it is also impossible for a poor man to get to heaven because he is poor, just as it is impossible for a Catholic or a protestant to get to heaven. Each and every adjective is a hindrance to get to heaven because they all belong to our human identity which is the very part that must be left behind.

The reason why "rich" is used in this context is because it is harder to part from riches then from poverty and therefore is it harder for a rich man to get to heaven.

Ronin

Why does being 'spiritual' require a complete abandonment of material possessions to bring happiness?

And why do churches seem so void of this very precept?

Because, if you read any of the previous posts, this sublime idea is folly.

But it was not that unusual an idea from the framers of the tenets of christianity ~



You're preaching to the choir.

meritocrat

So how did Jesus expect humans to live?

With NO possessions how do you obtain food, or even cook it?

Rational BAC

Got me.

It does sound awfully impractical.

But there is something in the Bible about not worrying how you will clothe yourself or eat, since God takes care of birds. Or something like that.

fatherphil

what i get from the passage is Jesus' observation that wealth can easily become an idol to us and replace our devotion to God. if you notice the apostle's reaction to it they were kind of blown away because they fell into the popular opinon that wealth made you better than the next guy.

was this thread really an attempt to study this passage in its context?