christ-on-a-stick

Holy IPU!!! Shocked the heck outta me to see this pop back up - I thought "nooo, nooooooooo, he's back to torture me with an insanely long post that I will be physically unable to keep from replying to!!!"

But alas, it is not to be. Thanks for the reply - just wanted to make sure we hadn't beaten you so badly that you bled to death

'Til next time then!

Lauri

Farren

christ-on-a-stick

Just read your comment about it being refreshing to talk about these things, hiding it from friends, et al.

I'm a computer geek but two of my friends are strippers and two of them worked on phone sex lines, and they are all exceptionally confident, fun and intelligent people.

What surpises me is that without exception, I had no knowledge of any of their professions when I befriended them. In other words, I don't simply have a bias towards sex-industry workers because I have liberal sexual views.

I don't know why the sex industry is still some kind of "Golden Ghetto" instead of a regular above-board hold your head up high industry.

I mean, R&B stars who don't write their own lyrics and (in cases like J-lo) can't even sing are elevated to lofty heights because of a single physical attribute (voice or looks). Why aren't sex workers seen in the same light?

With regard to your comments about many of the money men in the business being jerks, do you think this might have something to do with the golden ghetto status? In other words, most of the right-thinking sensitive new age guy types are too sensitive to get involved in an industry that so "obviously" exploits women?

christ-on-a-stick

Hi Farren! Welcome to IIDB.

Unfortunately I am not familiar with the term "Golden Ghetto", although I *think* I understand what it means... well, I get the "ghetto" part but ??? if you could elaborate, I will have learnt a new phrase Here in the USA at least, I think it's due in large part to our bizzare bourgeois-puritanical collective mentality re: sex. It's a somewhat schizophrenic mentality at that; on one hand, sex is used to sell everything from beer to cars, but on the other we (collectively) still view perfectly natural sexual expression as "taboo" in many ways. Hmmm... I do think to some extent that because being "in the industry" (even as a producer/distributor/technical participant) is considered "illegitimate" by so many people, some people who might otherwise be interested in exploring it might be unwilling to do so because of potential negative reactions from family, friends etc. Moreso, I think it's worth noting that large sectors of the business - those with the large market shares, "the heavy hitters", are very much corporate to the same degree as any large business (case in point, walking into the cube-farm-areas at Hustler HQ's in L.A., you would have absolutely no idea you were in anything but a "normal" office). That being said, the higher-ups in such organizations aren't much different than the executive types at any large business - a good portion of them tend to be "jerks" and mainly considered with bottom line.
I've always just looked at it as, hey, that's life no matter WHERE you work and if it bothers you or makes you uncomfortable, don't work for them. I personally made it a point never to work for anyone that I felt treated me (or other performers) *unacceptably*, but then again I've always maintained that standard in my "regular" jobs as well.

Farren

thx, been around for a long while lurking



The phrase was originally coined by William Gibson to refer to Science Fiction - Seedy, at the wrong end of literary urban culture, but oh so profitable. Consider peoples attitude to "Trekkies"

Daggah

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but since luvluv was really focusing on that ABC interview with Bella Donna, I thought it appropriate to mention this.

Here is a link to another interview with her. Viewers be warned; while there is no pornographic content on the page I linked (a few banner ads for porn, but no nudity), there is nudity on other pages of that website, so if that offends you, you shouldn't go exploring.

Anyway, some highlights from the interview:

"They didn't tell me how long, they just wanted to follow me around. That's how it happened and when I watched it I was pretty shocked. It was not the way I thought it would be. There was two years of content that they did not show. The interview was all chopped up. No one got to hear the real side of the story."

"I was just interested in letting people out there know my story. It was MY story, not anyone else's. The only time I thought, "Oh my God, I shouldn't do this," was after the Diane Sawyer interview. She had been asking questions that I was not ready for. At that time I was in a bad state of mind. It had nothing to do with being in the porn industry, it had to do with my personal life. When she was asking those questions, I reacted to them by the way I was feeling at that time. After I left New York I thought that maybe I shouldn't let them air that because I didn't want people in the industry to think that that's the way I felt all the time I was in the industry. It was experiences in my personal life that made me feel that way at that time."

"Not only that, but of all the footage they had NEVER showed how much I enjoyed it! If you watch one of my scenes, you can tell - I like it! Yeah, I cried on ABC, but I was in a very bad state of mind at that time. I was going through a lot of things in my personal life and it was really sad, you know? Even on that interview I was saying, "I don't want you guys to make me look like I'm a victim because I'm not! This is my choice, something I chose to do. They said I have bad days, yeah - you can have bad days. The only experience I had in the industry that I had any regret was that gang bang. That had nothing to do with the industry, it was just something that I shouldn't have done. Other than that, one experience in three years? C'mon! I'm an adult, I make my own decisions."

Those are the things she said most relevant to this discussion (the rest of the interview is about what she's doing now and her future plans, that sort of thing), so if you don't want to visit the website, you don't have to.

I would be curious to hear luvluv's response. I'm not surprised at all to find out that ABC really misrepresented Bella Donna in their interview.

christ-on-a-stick

Hi Daggah,

Thanks for bringing this up and posting those highlights.

I suspect that even those explicit statements of BellaDonna's - notably this and this - would fail to convince luvluv that a) she was misrepresented in the interview and/or b) that she is not, in fact, a hapless "victim".

But I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth.... I'd be interested in his reaction as well.

luvluv

Lauri:

Well, no I wouldn't say she was misrepresented in the interview. The interview portion that I saw was pretty self-explanatory. She made the statements in the interview that the pain was caused by her experiences in the gang bang scene and in the scene in Europe. If that was not the case she was misrepresenting herself. That might not have been the whole story of her experiences in porn. But for me, that is enough.

Frankly, after watching the interview I find her recent denials somewhat difficult to believe. It's what I would say if I wanted to keep working in the porn business. She made no bones about the fact that the money was a significant factor in her decision to return to pornography after the gang-bang incident. At this point, I cannot discount the possibility that she is simply in denial. If she were to establish a track record of making sound personal decisions in her life for an extended period of time, then perhaps my view about her could be altered. But as it stands now... How many people who are engaging in self-destructive behavior, whether it is alchoholism or drug addiction or sexual addiction or gambling or whatever... ever admit to it while they are engaged in it?

It's really just impossible for me to totally ignore and totally discount that interview as being totally inaccurate or totally misrepresentative. There was an awfully large amount of truth in that girl's pain and tears in that interview. I imagine that to a lot of her co-workers that could be considered a betrayal. I can imagine that she might have been ostracized by the interview in her community of co-workers. But given the authenticity of what I saw in the interview, I really cannot entertain the possibility that the ABC special was totally innacurate.

Is that what you are suggesting?

And by the way I don't think Belladonna or any other porn star (for the most part) is a hapless victim. I guess we still haven't broken the unfortunate habit of carricaturing each other's positions to make ourselves feel better about our opinions. (And by "we", of course, I mean you. )

I think they do a lot of contributing to their own demise. I don't minimize the role their own bad choices play in their decision to be involved with pornography. But that really doesn't excuse taking advantage of a person who for whatever reason isn't capable of making healthy decisions for themselves.

Daggah

luvluv,

I think it is you who is in denial here.

Major problem (and no, it's not that you're psychoanalyzing a young woman that you don't even know) - Bella Donna has her OWN production company. For the most part she doesn't do work for other companies any more, so I really don't think she's in a position to be worried about saving face to ensure career integrity. What is she going to do, fire herself because she didn't like the interview?

So?

Of course you can't. Thinking otherwise wouldn't fit your preconceived notions, now, would it?

"Sound personal decisions" according to whom? You and your flawed Christian standards?

Red herring.

Welcome to sensationalistic journalism. Frankly, I find it ridiculous that you think that you're in a position to judge the sincerity of a young woman you don't even know. Bella Donna explained the situation.

Yeah, I bet you can. However, I fail to see the relevance your imagination has here.

That was sort of the whole point! The interview was apparently not very authentic at all. You're just assuming your original premise here.

So, you feel that a one hour (or was it two?) special that compressed two years of following Bella Donna around couldn't possibly portray an inaccurate picture, especially considering the sensationalistic nature of our media? Let's face it. ABC knows that an "expose" that doesn't expose isn't going to get ratings.

luvluv

Daggah:

How well do you think her videos are going to sell if people feel guilty about masterbating over her? Whether she is self-employed or works for the man, it's a financial no-brainer to disassociate yourself from that interview.

I think it's fine to consider the possible bias and financial motivations of ABC as long as you consider the possible bias and financial motivations of Belladonna.

Not even ABC can edit in tears where there were none shed. The girl looked to be a bit of a wreck on several occassions in that piece. If she never broke into tears there would never be any footage of that to edit in.

Daggah, it's just one man's opinion. If you disagree fine. But are you really considering the possibility that the girl really isn't okay?

Daggah

First of all, get off her emotional state already. She explained that in the second interview.

Secondly, let's assume you're right. She's just trying to restore herself in the porn industry. Tell me, why didn't she go to one of the other news outlets, hmm? Why try this on a website that isn't mainstream in any way? Have you heard of rockconfidential.com before this? I haven't. I'm guessing it has a FAR smaller audience than the major media outlets do.

So this interview isn't going to be effective in achieving the goal you think she has. There's no way it can reach enough people to do that. (And I'd be willing to bet that the audience she's reaching out to probably continued to buy her tapes after the ABC interview anyway.)