Anna Karenina

Yes, because if before taking any drugs, I am aware that there is a potential risk of becoming an addict and even then I decide to take them, then I would consider my actions morally questionable.

beth

Yguy made a very good point, as do you. I chose tp try to live in a realistic world. I have never been on a trip, but it is something I would not seek to do. I have sh'rooms growing in a pasture behind me. The teens cut through my yard to get to them at times. Even though there is a psychedelic drug growing free and clear right in my back yard, I would never be tempted to use. I do not seek a mystical experience through chemical means. If I want one, I will instead meditate. Much safer. I like my thoughtful brain and it has a hard enough time thinking as it is, I certainly don't want to fry it.

yguy

I would suggest that you are not the same, in the sense that you now know of a way to induce an artificial sate of equanimity. Possibly the next time you get stressed out about something you will look to MDMA or some other external means to cure the symptom. If there is anything that will stress you out, it is raising a child; and you may find yourself one day sailling away on a slow boat to China at the very moment your child needs you to be in the present unpleasant reality.

Eikonoklast

Again, this is subjective because the user bears the brunt of the consequences. Personally, I would find addiction immoral because it would be an impediment to the "goals" in my life. Others may wish to be strung out all of their lives. In that case, there is no moral objection. Now, should those same people wish to leech off of the system at the same time, that is immoral. That is just one case though, and there are many others. It depends highly on the circumstances.

fatherphil

so why, anna, is it immoral to be an addict?

Eikonoklast

It's not ironic at all. I am an atheist and have taken mushrooms and acid a couple of times each. I can tell you from personal experience that the comparison that you are trying to make between Christianity and responsible drug users doesn't hold. It depends on what you mean by "derive meaning from it" and how that is applied to your life. As an atheist I still retain the idea of a subjective personal meaning as opposed to the objective meaning that would probably be derived by Christians.

Through the use of psychedelic drugs I found that I was able to intensly focus on my stream of consciousness in a way I otherwise could not or was unable to do. At the same time, I was able to correlate seemingly disparate elements in my personal life and physical world to "derive meaning", as you put it, in what I found to be an entirely creative process.

I also quite enjoy the intense existentialist feelings that psychedelics tend to bring about in myself. Simple questions such as "What are we doing?" or "What is happening right now?" highlight the restrictions of our language to truly express what we are thinking or experiencing. This all turns into fodder for creative philosophical ramblings among friends. True or not, it is the process itself that I value at the time.

All of this, while having your normal physical sensations multiplied tenfold. The "filter" of the brain that typically focuses on a limited number of sensations at one time is seemingly uncapped and flooded with information. One rather crude example I can give involves an instance where I had to urinate while tripping on acid. As I did, I literally felt like I was having an orgasm. Keeping in mind that time is extremely distorted, it felt like this continued for about 2 or 3 minutes.

Doing drugs, especially psychedelics, is not for everyone. That doesn't make it "stupid" though. You aren't necessarily going to have a revelation, so to speak. You typically get what you bring to the table. I personally have found my limited use of psychedelics have resulted in creative orgies which I have carried over into my typical, natural mind state.

Eikonoklast

Sure, but all it takes to avoid this is a simple act of will. That's why I personally recommend that people with addictive personalities or obsessive compulsive disorders steer clear of drug use. It's best to educate yourself first on the substances you take so that you will not set yourself up for addiction, physically or mentally. I won't take substances that are highly physically addicting ( i.e. cocaine, crack, heroin, opium, prescription pills, alchohol, cigarettes). My other main beef with those is that they have the potential to kill you. Moreover, something such as mushrooms or acid is so physically taxing and requires so much of your time, you are less likely to do it as often. Also, in relation to the example you created, it is best not to do drugs during times of depression or when you are stressed out. This simply creates a consoling effect that can draw you to drugs during hard times. This is similar to how some people overeat when they are feeling bad or are stressed out.

Through education it's simple to minimize potential addiction. But when it comes down to it, you have to have the ability to "Just Say No!"

Koyaanisqatsi

fatherphil, you are aware that your entire body is one huge pharmacy and that all of your actions and reactions are the results of chemicals, right?

Hold your breath long enough and you'll pass out from oxygen narcosis. Jog five miles and your body will feel the euphoria of endorphins.

Stick your hand into a fire and have a form of morphine course through your body to counteract the pain.

Eat something and hear the digestion caused by gastric acid, breaking the food down into sugars, carbohydrates, cholesterol and fats.

Your own blood is a drug.

Why would it be "immoral" to, say, ingest "magic" mushrooms and not immoral to run five miles? Or eat a twinkie (the most immoral of all )? Or go to sleep (dopamine and the like)?

We produce all kinds of chemicals all the time to regulate and alter our moods. Why then would you, a god fearing man, consider it immoral to eat or smoke something god supposedly created?

The only thing we're not supposed to eat if the apple of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but since that exists in only one place bannished to us for all eternity, from where does this "immorality" you speak of come?

Buddrow_Wilson

I hereby nominate Koy for president!

yguy

Depends why you do it. Running that five miles so as to distract yourself from the fact that your marriage is falling apart is no different from distracting yourself with a joint for the same reason.