Freethought & Rationalism Archive

long winded fool · 11-30-2002, 12:06 PM

Maybe God created us with the option of choosing hell if we so desired? Maybe God wouldn't deny someone life, even though he knows they are going to choose "fire and brimstone" instead of heaven? It would seem according to the bible, that addiction to physical pleasures is the road to "hell." Maybe hell is just a soul addicted to physical pleasure without a body to experience it with? If the physical realm is the only place to experience physical pleasure, why would a soul addicted to pleasure wish to leave upon death? God would not be keeping the soul out of heaven in this case, but he would know that the soul will never stop searching for those physical pleasures since it never learned otherwise in life. The soul would voluntarily chain itself to "hell" for "all eternity." One could postulate that when people see ghosts, they are seeing a soul in hell. Since they never rose above their instincts in life, they are now a bodiless consciousness who can no longer find what they spent their time looking for while living. No matter how bad it got, they could only comprehend relief coming from physical pleasure, and would never even think to abandon it. This would certainly seem to be hell in my opinion. And it would seem to correlate with alleged sightings of despondent phantoms searching for something and never finding it.

A lot of what-if's here, but they seem to explain a lot of things. If my analogy follows, God doesn't send people to hell as punishment, he allows hell as an opportunity for the ignorant and impulsive to continue to be ignorant and impulsive. The ultimate free will.

(The obvious counter to this is the free-will/predestination paradox. In order for this analogy to fly, one must assume free will existing under an omniscient God, which I'm not sure is a logical assumption.)

Starboy · 11-30-2002, 12:35 PM

xeren, god did not create us to send us to hell. It created us to kiss its a**. The problem with being omni everything is that it is also all-ego.

[ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

Daniel_AnglumTM · 11-30-2002, 01:35 PM

(for arguements sake) maybe this world is hell/Purgetry maybe god just puts all those rejects when he creates them onto this world and has fun using us as stress toys by throwing these insane creeds at us

xeren · 11-30-2002, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
xeren, god did not create us to send us to hell. It created us to kiss its a**.

hinduwoman · 11-30-2002, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moriarty:
(for arguements sake) maybe this world is hell/Purgetry maybe god just puts all those rejects when he creates them onto this world and has fun using us as stress toys by throwing these insane creeds at us

That is what Bernard Shaw said --- this earth is actually hell.

11-30-2002, 06:36 PM

The idea of a god sending someone to "hell" simply because they reject a particular religion is just about the dumbest idea of all time.

If xianity is true, just think of all the MILLIONS of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and others who are burning at this very moment even though the deity KNEW that they would reject "Him" even before "He" created them.

It's too horrific to even imagine. Screw xianity, and screw the people who believe that nonsense.

[ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: atheist_in_foxhole ]

Answerer · 11-30-2002, 06:43 PM

I bet only 20% taken out of all of the past, present and future human population will go to heaven if christinity(over my dead body) is true. Don't tell me their all-knowing God doesn't know this simple fact.

Humble Heathen · 12-01-2002, 01:05 PM

Quote:

I bet only 20% taken out of all of the past, present and future human population will go to heaven if christinity(over my dead body) is true. Don't tell me their all-knowing God doesn't know this simple fact.

A point illustrated humorously in South Park - Bigger, Longer and Uncut. Kenny goes up to heaven and passes a sign that says HEAVEN POPULATION 4,917. He is then rejected and goes to hell, passing another sign which says HELL POPULATION 8,956,754,342,567 with the numbers turning rapidly.

AJ113 · 12-01-2002, 03:21 PM

My view is that if someone uses the brain that God gave them to genuinely deduce that God does not exist, then, whether that person is correct in his/her deduction or not, he/she could hardly be damned for all eternity by God.

That would be like God admitting that his creation (and consequently God himself) was not perfect.

On the other hand, if God DID allow the logical, thinking Atheist in to Heaven, then God would be shown to be hypocritical because the bible clearly states that you have to "believe" in order to get in to Heaven.

Oh, bollocks. I think I just disproved God's existence......

CALDONIA · 12-01-2002, 03:28 PM

The only people who will go to Hell are Christians, for their incompetence and miserable failure in convincing all the unbelievers to adopt their Faith.

11-30-2002, 12:35 PM	#22
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	xeren, god did not create us to send us to hell. It created us to kiss its a**. The problem with being omni everything is that it is also all-ego. [ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

11-30-2002, 06:36 PM	#26
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	The idea of a god sending someone to "hell" simply because they reject a particular religion is just about the dumbest idea of all time. If xianity is true, just think of all the MILLIONS of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and others who are burning at this very moment even though the deity KNEW that they would reject "Him" even before "He" created them. It's too horrific to even imagine. Screw xianity, and screw the people who believe that nonsense. [ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: atheist_in_foxhole ]</p>

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11-30-2002, 12:06 PM	#21
long winded fool Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 2,113	Maybe God created us with the option of choosing hell if we so desired? Maybe God wouldn't deny someone life, even though he knows they are going to choose "fire and brimstone" instead of heaven? It would seem according to the bible, that addiction to physical pleasures is the road to "hell." Maybe hell is just a soul addicted to physical pleasure without a body to experience it with? If the physical realm is the only place to experience physical pleasure, why would a soul addicted to pleasure wish to leave upon death? God would not be keeping the soul out of heaven in this case, but he would know that the soul will never stop searching for those physical pleasures since it never learned otherwise in life. The soul would voluntarily chain itself to "hell" for "all eternity." One could postulate that when people see ghosts, they are seeing a soul in hell. Since they never rose above their instincts in life, they are now a bodiless consciousness who can no longer find what they spent their time looking for while living. No matter how bad it got, they could only comprehend relief coming from physical pleasure, and would never even think to abandon it. This would certainly seem to be hell in my opinion. And it would seem to correlate with alleged sightings of despondent phantoms searching for something and never finding it. A lot of what-if's here, but they seem to explain a lot of things. If my analogy follows, God doesn't send people to hell as punishment, he allows hell as an opportunity for the ignorant and impulsive to continue to be ignorant and impulsive. The ultimate free will. (The obvious counter to this is the free-will/predestination paradox. In order for this analogy to fly, one must assume free will existing under an omniscient God, which I'm not sure is a logical assumption.)

11-30-2002, 01:35 PM	#23
Daniel_AnglumTM Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere in the Suburban Jungle of London Posts: 34	(for arguements sake) maybe this world is hell/Purgetry maybe god just puts all those rejects when he creates them onto this world and has fun using us as stress toys by throwing these insane creeds at us

11-30-2002, 06:43 PM	#27
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	I bet only 20% taken out of all of the past, present and future human population will go to heaven if christinity(over my dead body) is true. Don't tell me their all-knowing God doesn't know this simple fact.

12-01-2002, 03:21 PM	#29
AJ113 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hull UK Posts: 854	My view is that if someone uses the brain that God gave them to genuinely deduce that God does not exist, then, whether that person is correct in his/her deduction or not, he/she could hardly be damned for all eternity by God. That would be like God admitting that his creation (and consequently God himself) was not perfect. On the other hand, if God DID allow the logical, thinking Atheist in to Heaven, then God would be shown to be hypocritical because the bible clearly states that you have to "believe" in order to get in to Heaven. Oh, bollocks. I think I just disproved God's existence......

12-01-2002, 03:28 PM	#30
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	The only people who will go to Hell are Christians, for their incompetence and miserable failure in convincing all the unbelievers to adopt their Faith.

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