Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Other Michael · 07-03-2002, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
I would also say that because of what she was doing during the time her children were alone and baking in the car that vanity is a part of the equation, not because her female gender makes her vain by default but because she appears to place vanity over her responsibility as mother and protector of her three children. Her vanity superseded her maternal obligations here and therefore her vanity was contributory to her negligence resulting in the slow and painful death of her three children.

Brighid,

I think her being at a hair salon is totally irrelevant. She could have been shopping, visiting friends, passed out in a crack house, or at Sunday School, and the results would have been the same.

Negligence by the parent is the cause of these deaths. Her gender isn't relevant, her religion isn't relevant, and her activity at the time isn't relevant.

cheers,
Michael

brighid · 07-03-2002, 09:28 AM

Michael,

You are right, she could have been anywhere that day and left her children unattended in their car for 3 hours in raging heat but this day she happened to be in a salon getting beautified and pampered. And yes, all those things are also irrelevant to how, why and what happened � purely circumstantial. Thanks for pointing that out � again my mental projection abilities seem to be weak here � OR, are they working and you are simply putting those thoughts here for me?? You seem to have this uncanny ability to do that! I see � I have now entered the Twilight Zone �

Brighid

The Other Michael · 07-03-2002, 09:33 AM

<moderator hat on>

A brief reminder from the Forum Rules and Policies:

Quote:

(2) You will not post material that is knowingly defamatory, illegal, abusive, threatening, harassing, or racially offensive. As with anything, you will use good common sense. In other words, you agree not to be a jerk.

Let's try and eliminate some of the ad homs and enhance the civility level.

</moderator hat on>

thanks,
Michael
MF&P Moderator, 3rd Class

rebelnerd · 07-03-2002, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael:

I think her being at a hair salon is totally irrelevant. She could have been shopping, visiting friends, passed out in a crack house, or at Sunday School, and the results would have been the same.

Agreed, noting though the fact that she was at the beauty salon was the icing on the cake that sent me over the top.

Quote:

Negligence by the parent is the cause of these deaths. Her gender isn't relevant, her religion isn't relevant, and her activity at the time isn't relevant.

Agreed, with the above noted exception.

Filo

brighid · 07-03-2002, 09:53 AM

I think what makes this more disturbing for me is that she was engaged in something so frivolous and in this case, selfish in deference of her children�s safety. Sometimes people are not thinking and bad things happen, but I think there are degrees and certain actions only make terrible situations even worse.

I am all for a spa day, as I indulge in those myself whenever I can and when my budget has permitted it I have been known to take the whole day and enjoy selfish pleasures like a manicure, pedicure, full body massage, sea salt scrub, a steam and a facial � all in one shot. I have spent many an hour enduring the chemicals of hair dye just to hide my gray, and in the event I had no day care my son came with me and was within my sight at all times.

I wonder if any one say those children in those three hours, or heard their cries in that car. This is just so horrible.

B

Katey · 07-03-2002, 10:12 AM

Filo...I don't get it...I asked YOU for 25 cents for the personality profile. But you tell me that it will cost me more than that? I don't get it? Could you please explain that to me in vivid detail..no really. Vivid.

{deleted inflamatory language}

The problem, morally speaking, with this whole thread is that everyone here (with a possible exception of the other michael *thanks for the B-shot BTW*) is more worried about the guilt or innocence of this person (and in Filo's case, this WOMAN) than how it happened and how to prevent it. Judge, judge, judge. If you're not willing to fix it, don't stand around and gripe about it.

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]

Katey · 07-03-2002, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
I wonder if any one say those children in those three hours, or heard their cries in that car. This is just so horrible.

B

pokes her arm to see if she's real

You're an amatoon aren't you?

rebelnerd · 07-03-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:

I am all for a spa day, as I indulge in those myself whenever I can and when my budget has permitted it I have been known to take the whole day and enjoy selfish pleasures like a manicure, pedicure, full body massage, sea salt scrub, a steam and a facial � all in one shot. I have spent many an hour enduring the chemicals of hair dye just to hide my gray, and in the event I had no day care my son came with me and was within my sight at all times.

And enjoy it you should! I have no objection whatsoever to vanity or getting pampered. I don't have to worry much about hiding grey, most of my hair has fallen out (read - bald.) I think for the most part people are responsible parents and some are even exceptional parents. I would argue it is our natural instinct to care and nurture our young. I think that is why something like this really angers us, because it flies in the face of what we assume to be "normal" behavior.

Just to toot my own horn, I have been a Mr. Mom for most of my sons upbringing. Due to getting severely injured in an industrial accident years ago (mangled body parts, etc, yuck!) my wife has worked and I have taken care of our son. I has really given me a different perspective on things.

Filo

rebelnerd · 07-03-2002, 10:23 AM

Going...., going.....

brighid · 07-03-2002, 10:27 AM

Filo,

Sorry to hear about the accident � ouch would probably be an understatement!

Good for you! My husband keeps trying for the house husband position and he would make an excellent stay at home father. For right now, we both work but our son is in school all day and I get home before the school bus, so it works out nicely. I read somewhere how children benefit immensely from having stay at home fathers because of the balance it creates in parenting roles. Mommy isn�t just the soother of all that ails, dads are too! We have quite a few stay at home fathers in our neighborhood. I have a close friend who does that and he really gained a new perspective, especially after coming home previously to an unclean home and asking his wife what she did all day! DOH! He learned just how demanding taking care of a new born can be

Brighid

07-03-2002, 10:12 AM	#206
Katey Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Uhhhh. Posts: 15	Filo...I don't get it...I asked YOU for 25 cents for the personality profile. But you tell me that it will cost me more than that? I don't get it? Could you please explain that to me in vivid detail..no really. Vivid. {deleted inflamatory language} The problem, morally speaking, with this whole thread is that everyone here (with a possible exception of the other michael thanks for the B-shot BTW) is more worried about the guilt or innocence of this person (and in Filo's case, this WOMAN) than how it happened and how to prevent it. Judge, judge, judge. If you're not willing to fix it, don't stand around and gripe about it. [ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]</p>

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07-03-2002, 09:28 AM	#202
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Michael, You are right, she could have been anywhere that day and left her children unattended in their car for 3 hours in raging heat but this day she happened to be in a salon getting beautified and pampered. And yes, all those things are also irrelevant to how, why and what happened � purely circumstantial. Thanks for pointing that out � again my mental projection abilities seem to be weak here � OR, are they working and you are simply putting those thoughts here for me?? You seem to have this uncanny ability to do that! I see � I have now entered the Twilight Zone � Brighid

07-03-2002, 09:53 AM	#205
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	I think what makes this more disturbing for me is that she was engaged in something so frivolous and in this case, selfish in deference of her children�s safety. Sometimes people are not thinking and bad things happen, but I think there are degrees and certain actions only make terrible situations even worse. I am all for a spa day, as I indulge in those myself whenever I can and when my budget has permitted it I have been known to take the whole day and enjoy selfish pleasures like a manicure, pedicure, full body massage, sea salt scrub, a steam and a facial � all in one shot. I have spent many an hour enduring the chemicals of hair dye just to hide my gray, and in the event I had no day care my son came with me and was within my sight at all times. I wonder if any one say those children in those three hours, or heard their cries in that car. This is just so horrible. B

07-03-2002, 10:23 AM	#209
rebelnerd Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: 47°30'27" North, 122°20'51" West - Folding@Home Posts: 600	Going...., going.....

07-03-2002, 10:27 AM	#210
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Filo, Sorry to hear about the accident � ouch would probably be an understatement! Good for you! My husband keeps trying for the house husband position and he would make an excellent stay at home father. For right now, we both work but our son is in school all day and I get home before the school bus, so it works out nicely. I read somewhere how children benefit immensely from having stay at home fathers because of the balance it creates in parenting roles. Mommy isn�t just the soother of all that ails, dads are too! We have quite a few stay at home fathers in our neighborhood. I have a close friend who does that and he really gained a new perspective, especially after coming home previously to an unclean home and asking his wife what she did all day! DOH! He learned just how demanding taking care of a new born can be Brighid

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