Freethought & Rationalism Archive

99Percent · 12-31-2002, 10:47 AM

I have discussed objective morality at great lengths in the Moral Foundations forum. I don't see the need to bring up all those arguments here. Once the search capability of the forum is running I will look up the threads and post the links here so you can look for yourself.

August Spies · 12-31-2002, 10:49 AM

you dont' even need to say it at great lenghts, even five sentences would be helpful.

99 if every argument you make centers of objective morality, and you use it as the CLOSER to every debate in THIS FORUM you should be willing to discuss it here.

YHWH666 · 12-31-2002, 12:22 PM

Any one here ever seen any of the Robob-cop movies? it is set in a world where the city police force has been privatised. eventually the corporat types do all sorts of evil stuff. anyways i just thought I'd recomend them to you guys incase you feel like renting a movie. the're pretty amusing, plus they got lot's of robot-smashing-action

thefugitivesaint · 12-31-2002, 01:58 PM

robot-smashing action...yum!
-theSaint

Loren Pechtel · 12-31-2002, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YHWH666
Any one here ever seen any of the Robob-cop movies? it is set in a world where the city police force has been privatised. eventually the corporat types do all sorts of evil stuff. anyways i just thought I'd recomend them to you guys incase you feel like renting a movie. the're pretty amusing, plus they got lot's of robot-smashing-action

The problem isn't privatized police, it's having *ONE* privatized police force. You need at least three--so that no company has over 50% of the power. Police would be something you contract with like insurance companies are now.

August Spies · 12-31-2002, 04:22 PM

how can you even pretend they would adequetly protect everyone and not just thier bosses?

Loren Pechtel · 12-31-2002, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by August Spies

how can you even pretend they would adequetly protect everyone and not just thier bosses?

Do insurance companies only cover their executives, or do they cover their clients?

August Spies · 12-31-2002, 10:35 PM

LP:

Insurance companies cover who pays for them. Private police forces would likewise cover who pays for them (this is what I meant by bosses)

so how could you expect total coverage? only if everyone payed for them? how coudl this be done, perhaps some kind of tax.....

Thomas Ash · 01-01-2003, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thefugitivesaint
Thomas Ash:

Well, if we could highlight a certain telling word within this part of your statement we could easily clear up a glarying inconsistency. The word "believe" implies a "believer." If the morality being discussed here was, in fact, "objective" than "belief" would not come into play as belief or non-belief would be variables that had no weight.

Substitute the word 'think' for 'believe'. Does that clear up the problem? Beliefs can still be true or false, eg. "I believe there is a God" (I don't!

) or "I believe McDonalds makes Indian meals now."

Quote:

If we had to function under a morality that was truly "objective" in the sense that gravity is "objective" than individual preferences would be mere ostentatious dress. Morality requires someone to value it and those values should reflect and address the specific needs of the "moral agent" in question. This very structure entails a specific socio-biological history whose development is arbitrary universally speaking. Given a different environment to develop in, different needs to be met and different social structures to attain those needs then you have a different organism whose "moral priorities" would be altered as well. Not all "moral" structures are readily built into nature like a universal blueprint. But, what the hell do i know?

Morality does require people to value certain things - if there were no humans or sentient beings, it'd be hard to do an immoral action, after all. But once you do have humans valuing certain things - eg. pleasure and the absence of pain - certain types of action can be objectively wrong for anyone who does them - eg. inflicting gratuitous pain on those humans who don't like it. (I'm not pretending that's a justification in itself, it's just an explanation of what I mean.)

Quote:

I would like a bit of explination here. I think i know what you are referring to but i am unclear (hence the question). Thanx and i'll reply after new years (not that anyone is deeply concerned here).
-theSaint

"Labour mixing" is a classical explanation oh how natural property (eg. rocks, land, minerals) becomes 'owned' by someone.

Dr. Retard · 01-01-2003, 10:11 AM

The question of objective morality has nothing to do with the question of political libertarianism. So far as I can tell, anyway. Objective morality isn't the province of Ayn Rand: look to Thomas Nagel or Ronald Dworkin or Derek Parfit.

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12-31-2002, 10:47 AM	#221
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	I have discussed objective morality at great lengths in the Moral Foundations forum. I don't see the need to bring up all those arguments here. Once the search capability of the forum is running I will look up the threads and post the links here so you can look for yourself.

12-31-2002, 10:49 AM	#222
August Spies Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Vine Posts: 12,950	you dont' even need to say it at great lenghts, even five sentences would be helpful. 99 if every argument you make centers of objective morality, and you use it as the CLOSER to every debate in THIS FORUM you should be willing to discuss it here.

12-31-2002, 12:22 PM	#223
YHWH666 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North America Posts: 457	Any one here ever seen any of the Robob-cop movies? it is set in a world where the city police force has been privatised. eventually the corporat types do all sorts of evil stuff. anyways i just thought I'd recomend them to you guys incase you feel like renting a movie. the're pretty amusing, plus they got lot's of robot-smashing-action

12-31-2002, 01:58 PM	#224
thefugitivesaint Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: philadelphia, PA. USA. Posts: 682	robot-smashing action...yum! -theSaint

12-31-2002, 04:22 PM	#226
August Spies Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Vine Posts: 12,950	how can you even pretend they would adequetly protect everyone and not just thier bosses?

12-31-2002, 10:35 PM	#228
August Spies Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Vine Posts: 12,950	LP: Insurance companies cover who pays for them. Private police forces would likewise cover who pays for them (this is what I meant by bosses) so how could you expect total coverage? only if everyone payed for them? how coudl this be done, perhaps some kind of tax.....

01-01-2003, 10:11 AM	#230
Dr. Retard Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 735	The question of objective morality has nothing to do with the question of political libertarianism. So far as I can tell, anyway. Objective morality isn't the province of Ayn Rand: look to Thomas Nagel or Ronald Dworkin or Derek Parfit.

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