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Old 01-21-2003, 11:15 AM   #91
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Originally posted by Toto
[B]This is just extremely tortured reasoning.

"And he sailed off with a fleet of sixty fifty-oared ships, and a large number of men and women to the number of thirty thousand, and with wheat and other provisions"

is obviously the start of the journey, not the purpose. The purpose was given in the preceding sentence. Your commentator is assuming that the voyage starts when the first person plural starts, without considering the issue of literary conventions.
Commentators. No one is ignoring literary conventions here except Robbins. The fact that your cut and pastie includes numbered paragraphs does not mean it's not the prefatory beginning of the voyage.

And you completely ignore the even more important fact that whether it was written by Hanno himself or two of his sailors, it is considered a first person account of an actual voyage from the perspective of some of the participants.

Talk about tortured.

You are using a true account written by participants in the voyage to argue that Acts is not a true account and was not written by a person involved in the voyages.

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As I noted in the post following, Robbins is a modern proponent of his thesis, and has seen no reason to change it in the face of Hemer's and Witherington's criticism. Burton Mack agrees with him.
Until either Robbins or Mack makes a substantive response to his critics, his theory is undefended. A casual reference by Mack and a one or two sentence email post by Robbins does not constitute such a defense.

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I am not sure that I agree with him, since I have not yet read everything on the subject. I only know that the criticisms of his theory miss the mark.
You do not seem to understand fully what those criticisms are. You continue to ignore many of my points.

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I do not understand your strange reluctance to actually read the article. Robbins' later work tends to be dense with LitCrit jargon, but this article is actually fairly readable.
There is no strange reluctance on my part. The closest large library does not have his book or his article. If I had access to it I would be happy to read it.
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Old 01-21-2003, 11:54 AM   #92
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Originally posted by Layman
. . .
You are using a true account written by participants in the voyage to argue that Acts is not a true account and was not written by a person involved in the voyages.

I have made no such argument. Were I to make that argument, I would use better evidence, but you wanted to confine this to literary conventions.

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You do not seem to understand fully what those criticisms are. You continue to ignore many of my points.
Which of your points have I ignored? I went through most of the points in your opening posts.

But as I say, I need to put this aside for a while.

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There is no strange reluctance on my part. The closest large library does not have his book or his article. If I had access to it I would be happy to read it.
Funny. I found a copy. Peter has a copy. If you don't want to buy the book, you are in the same metropolitan area as Fuller Theological Seminary. Have you tried their library?
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Old 01-21-2003, 12:04 PM   #93
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Originally posted by Toto
[B]I have made no such argument. Were I to make that argument, I would use better evidence, but you wanted to confine this to literary conventions.
While I agree that you have not made much of an argument for this point, it is a conclusion you continually spout off.

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Which of your points have I ignored? I went through most of the points in your opening posts.
You continue to ignore my break downs of the use of the "we-passages" or offer any rationale for the usage as consistent with Robbin's theory.

You continue to ignore that Hanno, whether written by Hanno or two of his sailors, is based on eyewitness sources and is a real piece of history.

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But as I say, I need to put this aside for a while.
There are no time penalties here.

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Funny. I found a copy. Peter has a copy. If you don't want to buy the book, you are in the same metropolitan area as Fuller Theological Seminary. Have you tried their library?
Nothing funny about it. I checked the libraries closest to me and my work and they did not have it. Fuller might well have it, but I don't travel to Pasadena very often.

I have nothing against reading it and would do so if I could conveinently get my hands on one. I'd be most interested in anythying written after 1980.
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