winstonjen

There was a case about a woman with Motor Neurone Disease, Sandy Williamson, who wanted to donate her organs after she commited suicide, because she was going to lose the use of her hands in the near future. However, the hospital that originally accepted had to decline, because they would get into trouble for it - it would have been suspicious. These cases may be rare, but sometimes a person wants to donate and is not allowed to.

Bob Stewart

Scigirl said, Let us focus on a (hypohetical) convicted capital murderer, and let us say that this murderer did do exactly what he was convicted of doing. I honestly don't see what is wrong with using the organs of this individual for transplants to others, whether he allows this use or not.

Now, can you explain just what is wrong with doing this! It seems to me that it is a way of getting the criminal to 'pay his/her debt to society' that has real substance.

Bob Stewart

Loren Pechtel

In the individual case, nothing. On the level of society, it's a big problem. If society profits from prisoners it has an incentive to create more of them.

B. H. Manners

""""Heh - it's kind of sad that one of the best ways to get pretty good health care for "free" is to commit a crime. Keep that in mind, all you unemployed and uninsured infidels! """"""""""


So sad, but nevertheless true.

scigirl

I do think this is wrong. Call me crazy, but I believe that having the right to the body parts we are born with is a fundamental right, not a privelege. Since you are proposing an action, I think the burden of proof is on you to show that me having 2 kidneys inside me is a privilege, not a right.

If we started doing this - where would it stop? Let's imagine another scenario - John Asscroft needs a kidney, and there weren't any inmates on death row who had his HLA type. So - he makes smoking pot an offense punishable by death. (Unfortunately I don't see this scenario as *that* unlikely - John Asscroft scares the living shit out of me, more than most criminals).

As a (future) doctor, I would refuse to be a part of anything so heinous as you are proposing. Forcing someone to undergo a very traumatic and risky procedure is a complete anathma to the oath that every medical professional takes. There are very few times that we even force *pills* against someone's will, and usually it's when the patient is a danger to themselves or others if they don't take the medication. And you want the medical profession to remove body parts against someone's will? No fucking way would I do it.

The thing that boggles my mind, Bob, is that you propose this "solution" as if it's the only alternative to our organ shortage. Have we actually *asked* the death row inmates if they want to donate their organs when they do die? My guess is a lot of them would do it. That guy in texas donated his body to science. We don't need to force them - we can just ask.

Another problem I have with your suggestion is that removing organs from live individuals would not solve the organ shortage. It would only transfer it. So prisoner X is forced to give up a kidney. What if his other kidney fails -then he needs one? You also didn't address my point that a lot of organs cannot be taken from a live individual - hearts, corneas, lung sets.

scigirl

winstonjen

What about after they die? It's not like they'll need their organs when they're not around anymore.

Daleth

Why just prisoners (assuming that is what you mean)? Why not anybody? Who's going to need their organs after they are dead? This is exactly why earlier in the thread a few people suggested that being a donor should be the default and that any person who does not want to be a donor after death should have to take steps to avoid it, rather than the way it is now.

brighid

Unfortunately, given that she has a rather pervasive disease I don't find it unreasonable that her organs would not be acceptable. Even people who have chosen to donate their organs upon death might not be able to donate all, or any of their organs depending on their physical health and/or the way the died (if the organs were damaged.)

I am not sure how the ethical dilemma of a suicide victim is, or can be approached. A person killing herself in order to donate organs really does put a hospital in a terrible position. I don't think that is a precident anyone wants to set.

Brighid

winstonjen

That wasn't the issue - apparently her doctor told her that her organs would be fine - MND attacks the nerve cells.

Suicide 'victim' is a misnomer, IMO - suicides can only be consensual. What society should do is quell the pro-lifers that immediately associate suicide with murder and the possibility of assisted suicide abuse.

Loren Pechtel

Commit suicide or I will kill your entire family. Consensual??