hinduwoman

Acquila, lyrricist, thanks for getting it that the OP was meant as irony!

hinduwoman

Xians are always saying that True Religion is clear. Well atheism is very clear --- no deity, nothing supernatural.
Also as I said before it is universal.
Again, I brought up the criticism of Vedas for a specific reason. The points on which the Vedas were criticized 3000 years ago, are exactly the points on which Bible is criticized today. Since there can be no influence from one side to other, the only answer for same reasonings can be GOD!

Jainism is a religion believing in transmigration of souls, but they don't belive in a God. So does that make them an atheistic religion?

Llyricist

I'll ignore the way you opened the post. But to this I say, Well DUHHHHHHHHH. How else CAN you define a word but how it is commonly used??

Remember, all I said was that atheism CAN be considered a religion, using the definition that must be common enough to make it into the dictionary.

WHY???? Isn't it enough to say one is a Catholic, one is a Buddhist, and the other is a Footballist??

Remember, many Buddhists ARE atheist.

And I don't know how many times I need to repeat this, but I agree that atheism is NOT a religion per se, only that it CAN be, using the definition that has found common enough usage to be included in the dictionary.

For an objectivist, you are awfully subjective. I mean your "True Meaning" argument sounds just like the "True Christian" argument we have all heard too many times.

Myself, I realize that different people mean different things with the words they use, and as long as the way they mean it falls into SOME sort of common usage, I won't pick nits about what the original meaning of the word was. It's when they make up some sort of EXCLUSIVE definition that I get riled up.

It's all semantics anyway, and as she pointed out it WAS meant as an irony... as I already nodded to.

*winks to hinduwoman*

crocodile deathroll

You will have to show us a Jainist dictionary!
The big W word for worship is the hallmark for what defines religion. Sure there many be athiest religions out there it is just that they worship something else, which could well be a cow or it could even be bananas; they worship something. But I do not think a religion can be a religion through just Athiesm alone. How can someone worship something that isn't there?

[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]</p>

Keith Russell

Lyricist:

The concept to which a word refers is the important thing. The word itself is only a way to reference the concept.

Words are utterly arbitrary.

Concepts, on the other hand, are not.

Keith.

Llyricist

Keith,

As has been shown on this thread alone, different people have different concepts that they represent with the word religion. Even if they all seem to be invoking concepts that are exclusive of being applied to atheism LOL. Most if not all of them being atheists themselves, it is not surprising that the concepts seen here should be this way. Since many atheists came to BE atheists by rejecting all religions, myself included, and I don't consider atheism to be my religion. I just allow the possibility that someone else might consider their atheism to be their religion by invoking a concept that is not exclusive of being applied thereto, that is, definition 4.

Starboy

hinduwoman, nice example of "the more things change the more they stay the same." I wish I could be around in 3000 A.D. to see if it is still going on. It does beg the question: why is hinduism or any other religion for that matter so stable?

Starboy

Fiach

I am not sure religions are really stable. They add and subtract concepts gods, saints, and demons under cultural influences but it is so gradual that it is often overlooked.

Ireland: Catholicism came to Ireland with missionaries including Padraig. It wasn't new. It adopted Druid philiosophy and its gods became the Catholic Trinity and the saints. It survived the Protestant persecutions of the English because the English religion was truly alien, and Irish Catholicism was patriotic.

India: Hinduism derived from the original Indo-European Religion and had remarkable similarities to Celtic Paganism. It survived the Muslim conquest because Islam was alien, intolerant, and abusive, while Hinduism was patriotism in the face of persecution.

Poland: Slavic Catholism was 700 years old or so, when it was essentially squeezed between Protestant Germans and Orthodox Russians. Both were persecutory. Both protestantism and orthodoxy were alien. Catholicism was patriotic. Remaining Catholic was remaining Polish in the face of oppression from the evil enemies and their religion.

North America: Many Indian tribes are rejecting alien Christianity and returning to ancient Indian Nature religions which they have preserved all of this time. They were only superficially Christian because once it was required by persecution. The wise Indians faked Christianity, and when the nation became more tolerant reverted to their "patriotic" Nature Religions.

Fiach

Mughal

Dear all,

Theo-ism is all about god A-Theo-ism is all about no god.

As for word religion, to theists it means two things a)natural way of life based upon concept of god ie a culture eg in Hinduism b)an appointed way of life for people, by god eg in Islam.

To atheists it means a culture or a way of life that has evolved to date.

There is no problem in accepting religion as a theistic way of life or as an atheistic way of life.

People live, some with concept of god some without.

It is like the concept of revelation. Atheists and theists both believe in the idea but each have their own definition.

So basically word religion can be used either way.

Rusting Car Bumper

Religion does not require a belief in a diety.

DC