Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roland98 · 08-12-2003, 11:17 AM

As far as the OP:

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthIsTold

Do atheists and non-theists out there ever feel you�re in some sense an outsider?

Yes, and it's only gotten worse recently as the in-laws decided to fundify themselves.

Luckily I have a refuge at work and at home (my husband is also an atheist), but even my class reunion turned into a religious event (and I went to a public high school). An editorial to the local paper suggested that atheists be banned from serving on local school boards, as their "evolutionist opinions" would be used to influence the science being taught. :banghead: (yes, that one broke the local irony meter). Being an atheist is one of the few remaining big taboos (at least here in the 'States). I live in an area that's swimming in ignorance, so that contributes to my attitude. Luckily, I do have many Christian friends who respect my views and try their best not to treat me as an outsider; however, from what I've experienced, they have been the exception rather than the rule.

Biff the unclean · 08-12-2003, 11:22 AM

Bush was reported to have said that on the TV news I was listening to in NYC. I remember mentioning to my wife when we heard it that he was repeating exactly the same words I had heard Billy Graham speak on the radio about a week before.

Jamie_L · 08-12-2003, 11:24 AM

Most of the time, no, I don't feel like an outsider. Mostly becuase I have family and friends who lead basically secular lives. Religion doesn't raise it's head too often.

Sometimes, however, yeah. I feel totally like an outsider. I look at all these rituals and beliefs and simply can't fathom that people take them seriously.

I have an aspect of my life that I can't really share with anybody I know, because they can't understand it at all. Likewise, people I care about have this deep-rooted belief that is walled-off from me. I can't engage in the reassuring conversations they have about the order, purpose, meaning, etc. to events. They have this whole method of coping that I can't be a part of - which isolates me from a part of being a friend and confidante to them.

And, of course, every now and then there is some media and/or political firestorm that seems to have everyone and their brother looking at those like me with disgust and sometimes hate. Cases in point: the great "God Bless America campaign" after 9/11/2001 and the equally mighty "9th Circuit Court Pledge incident".

Even those who care most for me sometimes slip in a snide comment about my beliefs when the topic of religion comes up. They don't do it to be mean, more to poke fun, but it often cuts deeper than I think they realize.

The world doesn't understand my outlook at all. They don't sympathize with it, and often they don't even tolerate it. Yeah, I feel like an outsider sometimes.

Jamie

Rusting Car Bumper · 08-12-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sophie

I cannot seem to find any rational people out there or even in here. The only company I seem to be stuck on are the real philosophers.

I think real philosophers are cool people. I love both men and women philosophers.

What about me? you wanna pick on me too?

Well sure I'll pick on you. You made a comment regarding the problem of evil in another thread that was (how shall I say) barely understandable, seemed at odds with anyone who is read on the subject, and then here you speak about real philosophers. Sorry but I can;t reconcile that.

This is besides the fact that your comments above can be construed as arrogant and insulting.

DC

Rusting Car Bumper · 08-12-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland98
I don't know if it was on TV. I'd assume it was recorded (?) Here's the exchange:

This is a bit far off the topic of the thread but there has been no substantiation of the quote Rob Sherman supposedly heard. He claims to have it on tape but won't release the tape. Anyone familiar with him can see that he's a self-promoter.

DC

livius drusus · 08-12-2003, 11:54 AM

If y'all would like to continue the discussion of Sherman's quote, I'd be glad to split those posts into a new thread. Sophie's philosophical bent is also better explored elsewhere (and I do mean Elsewhere), as it has little pertinence to the question in the OP.

Back to are non-theists outsiders, please.

Thank you,
livius drusus
Moderator - GRD

Biff the unclean · 08-12-2003, 01:34 PM

So TruthIsTold, are you operating on the premise that Christians do not try to make Atheists feel like outsiders?

Hopeful Monsters · 08-12-2003, 02:43 PM

the answer is YES - I did not think when I kicked off the thread that theists TRY to make non-theists feel like outsiders -

- but that might be the case !!!!

(by the way, my question is much better understood if you read my OP combined with the two replies I made soon after it to Peter Kirby - on Page 1)

- it is interesting to see the variety of feelings and experiences above - there are some who experience a neutral response and others who encounter something quite strong.

I remember very very causally saying to a co-worker opposite me once that I didn't believe in God. She really look shocked and appalled and said:

"Everyone believes in God"

she just wouldn't have it.

Those kind of moments can make you feel like an outsider! :boohoo:

But read my longer reply to Peter Kirby - that's more what I'm getting at ie. is there something, some element in being an atheist, that also makes one stand apart and outside the mainstream - and not always in a good way.

:boohoo:

Volker.Doormann · 08-12-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthIsTold
Thanks Volker for your profound quotation

You are welcome.

Some thoughts of mine. There are only two spiritual forces available: Truth and love. Truth is the ability to distinguish the true from the false. An adequate tool for this is analysis. Analysis divides the true from the false. Love is not able to distinguish, but able to integrate. Love without truth is as helpless as truth without love. As cognition of truth is coupled with the mind, the mind is only able to recognize differences, for example different public labels in the mind, but the mind is not able to integrate different labels. From this it seems, that different mind labels are different races, which might not have the same one ancient mother. Love doesn't cares about mind labels, or truth, there are no differences any more, only love. Woman's do love him because they love him. Belief/unbelief has no meaning - not really. It is not the difference, what has a meaning in respecting the being, it is the love, that is able to acknowledge the being. The only thing, where love is senseless, is an analyzing mind of a loveless being searching for differences hole life, and the only thing where truth is senseless, is love without truth, that is trying to integrate truth and untruth the hole life with love. Seems, that there is a figure of merit (?).

Volker

Hopeful Monsters · 08-12-2003, 02:51 PM

Jamie L -

Thanks - I find your example interesting and perhaps more what I expected - at least others above have encountered more positive responses (even given that all atheists have tentacles hidden under their coats and horns hidden under their hats)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-12-2003, 11:22 AM	#32
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Bush was reported to have said that on the TV news I was listening to in NYC. I remember mentioning to my wife when we heard it that he was repeating exactly the same words I had heard Billy Graham speak on the radio about a week before.

08-12-2003, 11:24 AM	#33
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	Most of the time, no, I don't feel like an outsider. Mostly becuase I have family and friends who lead basically secular lives. Religion doesn't raise it's head too often. Sometimes, however, yeah. I feel totally like an outsider. I look at all these rituals and beliefs and simply can't fathom that people take them seriously. I have an aspect of my life that I can't really share with anybody I know, because they can't understand it at all. Likewise, people I care about have this deep-rooted belief that is walled-off from me. I can't engage in the reassuring conversations they have about the order, purpose, meaning, etc. to events. They have this whole method of coping that I can't be a part of - which isolates me from a part of being a friend and confidante to them. And, of course, every now and then there is some media and/or political firestorm that seems to have everyone and their brother looking at those like me with disgust and sometimes hate. Cases in point: the great "God Bless America campaign" after 9/11/2001 and the equally mighty "9th Circuit Court Pledge incident". Even those who care most for me sometimes slip in a snide comment about my beliefs when the topic of religion comes up. They don't do it to be mean, more to poke fun, but it often cuts deeper than I think they realize. The world doesn't understand my outlook at all. They don't sympathize with it, and often they don't even tolerate it. Yeah, I feel like an outsider sometimes. Jamie

08-12-2003, 11:54 AM	#36
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	If y'all would like to continue the discussion of Sherman's quote, I'd be glad to split those posts into a new thread. Sophie's philosophical bent is also better explored elsewhere (and I do mean Elsewhere), as it has little pertinence to the question in the OP. Back to are non-theists outsiders, please. Thank you, livius drusus Moderator - GRD

08-12-2003, 01:34 PM	#37
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	So TruthIsTold, are you operating on the premise that Christians do not try to make Atheists feel like outsiders?

08-12-2003, 02:43 PM	#38
Hopeful Monsters Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: God is a Mind Loop Posts: 1,344	the answer is YES - I did not think when I kicked off the thread that theists TRY to make non-theists feel like outsiders - - but that might be the case !!!! (by the way, my question is much better understood if you read my OP combined with the two replies I made soon after it to Peter Kirby - on Page 1) - it is interesting to see the variety of feelings and experiences above - there are some who experience a neutral response and others who encounter something quite strong. I remember very very causally saying to a co-worker opposite me once that I didn't believe in God. She really look shocked and appalled and said: "Everyone believes in God" she just wouldn't have it. Those kind of moments can make you feel like an outsider! :boohoo: But read my longer reply to Peter Kirby - that's more what I'm getting at ie. is there something, some element in being an atheist, that also makes one stand apart and outside the mainstream - and not always in a good way. :boohoo:

08-12-2003, 02:51 PM	#40
Hopeful Monsters Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: God is a Mind Loop Posts: 1,344	Jamie L - Thanks - I find your example interesting and perhaps more what I expected - at least others above have encountered more positive responses (even given that all atheists have tentacles hidden under their coats and horns hidden under their hats)

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.