Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Albion · 08-11-2002, 11:17 AM

Atheists appear to be anti-Christian here because Christianity is the dominant religion and is the source of most of the anti-atheist feeling in this country. Some people may be specifically atheistic toward the Christian god, but I think atheism in general is nonspecific. If Christianity stopped existing but other religions still did exist, atheism would also exist.

Autonemesis · 08-11-2002, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ether:
I was not sure where to post this.

Rants, Raves and Preaching'd be my guess, since there is no religious content to your post.

Ensign Morituri · 08-11-2002, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RRH:
There were atheists before there were Christians.

I would take this point a step further and state unequivocally that all Christians and all theists come into this world as atheists. Some people simply maintain this natural state their whole lives.

Quote:

Atheism is the only truly universal religious belief, that has appeared in all cultures, in all of history.

Strictly speaking, atheism denotes nothing more than a lack of religious belief.

To Ether:

Despite a childhood spent in a Christian-run school system, I have always considered the Bible both personally and culturally irrelevant. I never gave it, or Christianity, a second thought beyond doing my "Christian Ethics" homework assignments.

I guess Jesus just don't want me for a sunbeam. Just as Allah don't want me for a martyr and Jehovah don't want me for a settler. Hell, Odin don't want me for a raven and Osiris don't want me for a jackal. Even the Great Spirit don't want me for a warrior.

It's all the same to me.

Sorry. Better luck next time.

EM

editing: UBB

[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: Ensign Morituri ]

Demigawd · 08-11-2002, 11:54 AM

I knew I was of the atheistic bent when, as a wee lad, I thought being one of Odin's ravens was alot more interesting than Christian heaven.

Ether · 08-11-2002, 01:59 PM

Quote:

I figure that there's a number of difficulties with this view. First, it is a strawman version of what atheism is. Atheism is simply a "lack of belief" that Grizzly mentioned. I certainly don't try to contradict everything in the Bible in the same way I won't try to contradict everthing from I hear from ancient Cree or Babylonian legends. There's some stuff that's probably not true or is exaggerated, but there's probably some historical stuff that may have hints of truth. There's also much to learn anthropologically, culturally, and even philosophically about ancient mythology.

I agree 100% on that. Thats is also how I think. Most of the atheist I have met and talk to in real life think that the bible is just a bunch of story made up by crazy men who had nothing better to do. But, there are many things on the bible and on many other religious text that are really important and often give us a better idea of who we are and where we come from. And a better idea of where religion comes from.

I guess it is just the atheist I have met, but there are as many types of atheist as there are of christians.

Quote:

My goal as a former Chrisitan is to thoroughly research everything relating to Christianty. This is due to my Church indoctrinated fear of hell. After being told for 15 plus years that atheists are bad and bound for hell, I thought it prudent to reasearch this decision to the best of my ability. I have and consequently I'm very atheistic in regards to the Christian version of God.

And most of them don't dare to question. In fact I have noticed that they don't even read the bible, they only learn a few verses and try to convert people with that. If they refuse they are told that they are going to burn in hell.

I was raised in a Catholic enviroment. They always tried to convert me to their religion and made me go to church. But I found church really boring and always refused to go or pray.

Quote:

I guess Jesus just don't want me for a sunbeam. Just as Allah don't want me for a martyr and Jehovah don't want me for a settler. Hell, Odin don't want me for a raven and Osiris don't want me for a jackal. Even the Great Spirit don't want me for a warrior.

Heh show them your wallet and you will see how quickly they turn your way

Good Day

[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: Ether ]

[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: Ether ]

Ensign Morituri · 08-11-2002, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ether:


Heh show them your wallet and you will see how quickly they turn your way

You've obviously never seen my wallet...

Kassiana · 08-11-2002, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ether:
I was not sure where to post this.

I have noticed that the only goal atheist have is to try and contradict everything in the bible and deny anything about God and give reasons to explain why they don't follow God. In the end you are very similar to Christians who are very much the same just in an oposite direction.

Atheism depends on Christianity it must always use it as a reference point. Go figure...

Good Day

Karen Armstrong makes a good argument in A History of God that Western atheism as it is today could not exist without Western Christianity, the way it developed in the Renaissance, if I remember it correctly. So in a sense you may be right.

oneofshibumi · 08-11-2002, 09:03 PM

Kassiana

Karen Armstrong makes a good argument in A History of God that Western atheism as it is today could not exist without Western Christianity, the way it developed in the Renaissance, if I remember it correctly. So in a sense you may be right.

I agree with the idea that atheism in Christian Europe could not exist, as it does today without Western Christianity. We can also add logic, reason, and science to the list. All three of these mental exercises had to compete against the many superstitions that were connected to Christianity. Making them even stronger.

It can also be argued, that atheism could not exist as it does today without Islam. Since, the impulse to look into the old texts (Roman manuscripts) came from Christian contact with the Islam.

08-14-2002, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Ether
I have noticed that the only goal atheist have is to try and contradict everything in the bible and deny anything about God and give reasons to explain why they don't follow God. In the end you are very similar to Christians who are very much the same just in an oposite direction.

Hi Ether,

I can see how a Christian can see it that way, however there is much more to it than that.

The word "atheist" is certainly negative and therefore in opposition to something. But that is where it stops. An atheist only calls himself that when confronted to mythologies. In everyday life one is not an atheist. By that I mean that people live their lives whitout a God but that in itself is not in negation to anything.

Evidence shows that man evolved.
Evidence shows that languages evolved and were created by man.
Evidence shows that morals are man-made.
etc.

As I see it none of this is in opposition to any religion. It is just another view of the world we live in, one based on evidence.

ohwilleke · 08-14-2002, 09:09 AM

It is probably true that Internet Infidels would not exist as an organization, if there were no Christianity (or similar monotheistic religion) in the United States.

It is also true that MADD wouldn't exist if nobody ever drove drunk or the car hadn't been invented.

Atheist consciousness is certainly a consequence of the fact that religion has a large role in the world, and in the United States, this religion is largely Christianity.

I think the more interesting observation is that if God really existed, in the manner proclaimed by Christianity, there would probably be no atheists. If the disciples had gone out an provided faith healing to the world (which was as much a part of their "great commission" as converting others to Christianity), and everyone had a family member who had benefitted from faith healing (in the way that modern medicine cures millions of one malady or another every year), there would be few atheists. If God spoke to prophets and performend miracles on a regular basis, as the Scripture provides evidence of, then there would be few atheists. If God spoke to people who pray, there would be few atheists. If God inspired theologians and bible writers -- the Bible would be without contradiction and there would be far fewer theological disputes than there are, and there would be fewer atheists. If Christianity were the true religion, there wouldn't be a huge proliferation of often very different religions in the world.

But, in fact, few people have God speaking to them, and most of them have damaged brains. Miracles are not an every day occurance. Prophets routinely turn out to be frauds. And modern medicine cures far more people than faith healing ever did.

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: ohwilleke ]

08-14-2002, 09:09 AM	#20
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	It is probably true that Internet Infidels would not exist as an organization, if there were no Christianity (or similar monotheistic religion) in the United States. It is also true that MADD wouldn't exist if nobody ever drove drunk or the car hadn't been invented. Atheist consciousness is certainly a consequence of the fact that religion has a large role in the world, and in the United States, this religion is largely Christianity. I think the more interesting observation is that if God really existed, in the manner proclaimed by Christianity, there would probably be no atheists. If the disciples had gone out an provided faith healing to the world (which was as much a part of their "great commission" as converting others to Christianity), and everyone had a family member who had benefitted from faith healing (in the way that modern medicine cures millions of one malady or another every year), there would be few atheists. If God spoke to prophets and performend miracles on a regular basis, as the Scripture provides evidence of, then there would be few atheists. If God spoke to people who pray, there would be few atheists. If God inspired theologians and bible writers -- the Bible would be without contradiction and there would be far fewer theological disputes than there are, and there would be fewer atheists. If Christianity were the true religion, there wouldn't be a huge proliferation of often very different religions in the world. But, in fact, few people have God speaking to them, and most of them have damaged brains. Miracles are not an every day occurance. Prophets routinely turn out to be frauds. And modern medicine cures far more people than faith healing ever did. [ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: ohwilleke ]</p>

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08-11-2002, 11:17 AM	#11
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Atheists appear to be anti-Christian here because Christianity is the dominant religion and is the source of most of the anti-atheist feeling in this country. Some people may be specifically atheistic toward the Christian god, but I think atheism in general is nonspecific. If Christianity stopped existing but other religions still did exist, atheism would also exist.

08-11-2002, 11:54 AM	#14
Demigawd Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place Posts: 2,254	I knew I was of the atheistic bent when, as a wee lad, I thought being one of Odin's ravens was alot more interesting than Christian heaven.

08-11-2002, 09:03 PM	#18
oneofshibumi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 749	Kassiana Karen Armstrong makes a good argument in A History of God that Western atheism as it is today could not exist without Western Christianity, the way it developed in the Renaissance, if I remember it correctly. So in a sense you may be right. I agree with the idea that atheism in Christian Europe could not exist, as it does today without Western Christianity. We can also add logic, reason, and science to the list. All three of these mental exercises had to compete against the many superstitions that were connected to Christianity. Making them even stronger. It can also be argued, that atheism could not exist as it does today without Islam. Since, the impulse to look into the old texts (Roman manuscripts) came from Christian contact with the Islam.

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